By: Zett
Live 8 brought out a lot of amazing new tools and much needed improvements including the live looper, Max support and many others. Nonetheless, there are a few critical dj centered features that are still missing. When I first dove into Live circa 2005, I was amazed by the possibilities of this remarkable new sequencer. Now after couple of years you can do almost anything imaginable in Live but it continues to lack features that most djs desperately need.
1 – Instant Reverse
As this is DJTechTools most of the readers are interested in using it for DJing or Controllerism.
When was the last time you were looking for an instant reverse effect in Live? Every few months I attempt to do this but it seems impossible with Live’s own capabilities. Instead you have to buy another piece of software which samples the input and reverses the playback. Providing a button which for “instant reverse” and a slider (MIDI mappable) to go from forward to reverse would really make my day.
2 – Native MP3 Support
Have you ever tried to put all of your MP3s into Live? Its simply not possible and takes up a huge amount of space because live creates full rendered WAV files on your HD of all your MP3s. In my case this leads to about 40GB of songs plus the original MP3 files. The reason is because a MP3 file it has to be decoded while playing the wave files are much less CPU intensive.
While most of us have brand new powerful laptops many people are not so lucky. During normal live usage with loops and samples the CPU usage meter is about 10% to 20% . However, while DJing, it rises to about 50% or even more if you have an older machine. If Live supported MP3’s, RAM usage would also decrease. A 200 song live set consumes about 4GB of memory but mp3s would take up significantly less RAM and more songs could be loaded at one time.
3 – Advanced MIDI Mapping Features
A complex mapping Job that Traktor can easily handle is very difficult to manage in Live without midi translators. Simple changes like switching between Toggle or a Momentary Switch are quickly modified inside Traktor’s preferences but Live’s basic midi capability remains limited.
Another important thing that Traktor offers is the ability to control Parameters via Modifiers. To fully tap into Live’s massive potential we really must have more robust midi capability.
4- Beat Marker Bend
Live added the ability to pitch bend the master clock which is great for syncing to other djs. Its still has failed to address a critical reality for most djs- not all of your songs always sync up perfectly. Certain amounts of nudging and adjustments to the grid position are always required live and right now the only way to do that is with the mouse.
Conclusion
In the end Live still is my favorite software when it comes to music creation and djing, but there are some important features that need to be implemented. What’s your opinion? Which features are you still missing in Ableton Live 8?
I don’t think there’s any point in DJing with Live unless you intend on layering loops, as there is no advantage apart from being able to use VSTs over Traktor in traditional 2-track DJing. That said, there are times I feel I’d like to throw in a couple of popular tracks. The only thing that needs adding to this is the ability to cue tracks and add multiple cues and loops. People use Live the wrong way. All of these points are moot when Traktor is available.
I think Live needs an audio editor.
Also being able to detach the arrangement view and clip view sections. This is more for production purposes. But hate not being able to see whats going on with the mix while aranging the track together. :/
Live also needs the following features
1. A better file browsing experience more in line with DJ apps, right now I make channels that are a “crates” with music. This gets to be cumbersome, but found it less painful than dragging and dropping out of the existing browser
2. loop / cue points within a clip. right now I’ve taken a track and made 5 additional copies, the original is all the way through, the copies are various loop or start points. so i can launch the chorus or a looped beat part of a track etc. Again this gets to be massively cumbersome
3. the ability to name grouped clips. it’s actually totally stupid they haven’t implemented this yet. the reason for doing this is you can make mini scenes and should be able to keep the labelled. I want to use this idea to enable me to send visual feedback to my apc40 instead of using bomes to translate
While i’m still reluctant to use Ableton for DJing, i do love it for producing. One of the things i really do hate though is using its automation. Particularly when i am editing pitch bends. There’s no snapping feature, so when i create a automation point at 0 it always jumps to 54 making it out of tune. I then have to press Command and drag point back down to 0. Why is it so hard to create a function where you just press control or option and have it snap to 0? or to the beat for that matter? It really doesn’t make any sense!
[quote comment=””][…] continue […][/quote]
[quote comment=”17853″]The site lists “Supports AIFF, WAV, MP3, Ogg Vorbis and FLAC files”. So for all but WAV, Live will actually first convert it to a WAV? That sucks pretty badly. Also AAC is notably missing from this list.
As for reverse playback. Maybe I do not understand the features in Ableton and Traktor sufficiently but I did notice this thread on the NI forums:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73633%5B/quote%5D
i’m not sure what’s wrong with that, no professional musician is going to want to be dealing with compressed files as it would take more processor and result in more artifacts each time the files where flattened, also harddisks are way cheap now
i am glad they are still targetting music professionals and are not making compromises for people who just want to fit thousands of tunes on tiny hard disks
One of the biggest lack is advanced looping features.
I tought ean was going to post it but no. Even if he uses (i guess) loop functions a lot in traktor.
An advanced looping feature would be really fun to play with. Some guy said that he can emulate anything from most dj softwares with live, but i was wondering how to do:
1º toggle loop on/off on particular channels (if you assign loop on/off to a button it only works for the ACTIVE CHANNEL, so you need to go to your desired channel first, then press the button, annoying!)
2º quick loop add (press one or two buttons and automatically set a 4 bar loop)
3º loop jump (make it go from one beat to the next or previous one). Not sure if its possible, but i think i could have not seen it.
4º (has nothing to do with looping) have two knobs/faders/buttons doing the same thing. Even if you cant believe it, actions can be performed just by one control, unlike in traktor where you can have tons of buttons doing the same
5º A GOOD 3 BAND EQ !!! Its frustrating to mix without a good EQ. Eq is the most important part in dj’ing, its ridiculous that you “cant” use EQ3 because it distorts the signal so much (makes non-clipping tracks to clip A LOT) even if you leave it as default. Another annoying thing is that its not like a normal EQ where 0 db’s are at 12 o’clock… It sucks when you need to assign it to a midi controller.
(solution: add a Utility and increase gain by +14 db aprox, then if you put your EQ3 at 12 o’clock it will be something “similar” to a flat EQ)
Hope someone from Live’s team is reading this
[quote comment=”18179″]I don’t like the looper…[/quote]
I don’t get how this plugin works. I have absolutely no clue how to use it. All the features are already available in Live. You can set the input of an audio track to “Resampling” for example. In my opinion it’s totally useless.
I mean who wants to loop loops over each other? You lose control of every loop you add. Which means you can’t EQ every loop differently for example…
4 – Beat Marker Bend
Solution for this:
Set the Global Quantization to “None”, then try the clip nudge on the clip that you want to adjust. You’ll find that the nudge now works in very fine increments (finer than 1/32), so you can use it for subtle adjustments (like nudging a record platter). Hope this helps!
I don’t like the looper it said my guitar line was like 500 bpm i mean their only grouping and three new effects i think it only ok it could be better but, still my favorite program
[quote comment=””][…] continue […][/quote]
Uh why did they take out copying of warp markers? Beyond irritating.
maybe with Glitch plugin we could slightly overcome the lack of reverse
Ups, I just noticed that the ableton website and the comparison chart talks about Live 7 only. I sure hope that they will update the bundled version to be based on Live 8 soon. Then again is the APC40 even shipping yet? Kinda odd to advertise a non released product with outdated software ..
Just a short heads up for people who are thinking about running Traktor into Live to get a best of both worlds. You might want to consider buying the APC40. Aside from giving you a top notch USB controller it also gives you an optimized, while limited, version of Live for a very low price:
http://www.ableton.com/pages/2009/apc_40/comparis…
Of course you can later upgrade to the full Ableton Live version and still get all the custom features from the APC version.
[quote comment=""][…] continue […][/quote]
In my point of view, as DJ and producer, Live 8 is getting there in what concerns the all-in-one package…
getting Rewire protocol in Traktor would be the major step to get both systems running in sync flawlessly.
the audio engine, could get "on pair" with Emagic's (now Apple) Logic.
Also having an option for a default 3 or 4 band eq, instead of having to insert it in every single track would be great.
Live is more than a DJ software, is a great production tool with great instruments, but you must do your homework very well before jumping on stage with it… and keep in mind that working on the fly is not as easy as it is on Traktor…
I think everyone is arguing over what a DJ is rather than if Ableton should be designed for them.
A better way to access media is better for everyone, so I don't see what the fuss is about.
Also, I know it's kind of janky, but for a "reverse" feature, you could always route things through the Looper, with its reverse feature.
[quote comment=""][…]This however is the role of a programmer not a musician – to be quick frank[…][/quote]
I disagree with all those saying that a digital DJ/musician shouldn't have to be a programmer to a point. As a digital DJ, in order to get your performance the way you like it, you have to use all tools that you have available, INCLUDING programming, scripting, what have you. Not saying that all you do is program, but you should learn as much as you can, to increase your toolset available.
I liken it to a pro musician. A pro saxophone player will go through 100+ horns before they find the one that they like, and then will have the spring actions customized to his/her liking. A guitarist always has his string preference, both for electric and acoustic, and his choice guitar. The similarity is that scripting and programming for a digital dj is like choosing your strings as a guitarist. The more you can do with programming, the better tuned your strings will be for you specific style.
People have been doing the like with 1200s for years, and I think it's a little absurd to think that we can have a fix all program to fit every need. They can be closer to what the "mass" of consumers want, but if you change one thing, someone will find a script or workaround to undo or modify the change they make anyway.
And to finish my point, all the work that has been done here by the DJTT team wasn't originally included in the hardware/software. There have been many hundreds of hours put into scripting, programming, and modding the "industry standard" to make things work better or with more functionality. These people that are changing minds aren't considered programmers, but DJ's and musicians that have learned to use such to increase the amount of tools available to them.
In my opinion Live is not really a dj tool, but rather an instrument for prepeared live perfomances. Most of the dj's can play in Traktor with the same gear because it's instinctively understood because of equal features and controller mappings (for exception of unique mappings like Ean Golden or other uses), but in Live every musician makes it's own mappings can't be used my the others and all material is used to be decompressed to wav and it's makes a dj limited in tracks.
[quote comment=""][…] You don’t need to be a programmer to make it happen, you just need to be a dj who’s willing to learn the technical side of his craft. […][/quote]
Boom Roasted. Old school DJ technical skills –> tt maintenance / repair, tonearm balancing, beatmatching, ear training to detect keys, cleaning and lubing contact faders
New School (digital) DJ technical Skills –> Midi Implementation / Translation, other small coding things
It's just keeping up with the times. DJs have ALWAYS been hacking up their gear to make it suit them better. . .remember tricks like the credit card mod for the Vestax mixers? Talk to Ean, he's not afraid to get his hands dirty with a little coding!
well if you get a netbook with 2gb ram .. it should be able to get you running fairly cheaply. i would assume ableton doing a few samples etc should run fine on a netbook.
I keep hearing about professionals such as the minus crew using two laptops. One for Traktor and another for Ableton. I keep asking myself is this the wave of the future? Do I really need two laptops. I use an external mixer, xone 42, and the 5th channel is really built to feed the fxs out to usb into another laptop. I find this thought to be quite frivolous. Unless you're a pro dj, who the hell is going to have 2 laptops? Who's going to carry this around? Who has the money for it?
Maybe I should post this in the forum…
…
Why my comments "is awaiting moderation"?
Thanks.
…
I'm not trying to say I'm happy taking the limited feature-set traktor, SSL, deckadance, torq, or any other suite offers up. I only like the playback features of traktor (I hate the mixer and the effects) and the MIDI mapping in both traktor and Live fall short of what I want. I pipe audio out of Traktor and into Live so I can use my own custom routing, 4-band EQ, and fx. When I want to add some sequenced synths or groove-box style stuff to my setup it won't be a problem because I've already worked out all of the kinks. I'll be very happy when Max for Live comes because I'll be able to run the Max patch that I use to modify MIDI controls in Live instead of separate. It'll just work cleaner.
I'm saying that the corner stone of Ableton Live has long been the clip interface found on every audio channel. That's what set it apart from other DAW's initially, it's what the Live name is built on. For some very good technical reasons the clip interface is designed with studio use in mind and favors forethought to on the fly control (for things like instant reverse and playback nudge). I don't expect Ableton will reverse those design decisions for the smallest portion of their market. It would require a great deal of development, including changing how clips are buffered, and it would alienate the audience they already have with features they don't care about. When you consider the back-end changes necessary to include these features you'll see that saying, "I wish Live would change these things," is like saying, "I wish Live was a different piece of software."
I suspect that it's those same reasons that led Ableton to pursue a partnership with Serato. To work out some way to get reliable and established dj style playback decks without changing the staple of Live and to give dj's all of the fun toys from Ableton that they love.
I'm not saying "shut-up and take what you get." I'm saying, be more realistic. If you make several pieces of software work together you can get all of the features that you like today instead of asking Ableton to do something they'll never do. You don't need to be a programmer to make it happen, you just need to be a dj who's willing to learn the technical side of his craft.
[quote comment=""][…] continue […][/quote]
[quote comment="17862"]Given that I do have 2 laptops, it looks like instead of looking to eventually route Traktor through Ableton, the option of bringing Maschine into the mix has become more appealing:
Though I wonder why they are feeding Maschine into Traktor and not the other way around? Anyways a bit offtopic.[/quote]
They're not feeding Maschine into Traktor.
Traktor is sending Midi Clock to Maschine.
…
@ADAM G
http://www.cogs.susx.ac.uk/users/nc81/research/av…
http://video.google.es/videosearch?q=moldover&…
http://createdigitalmusic.com/tag/programming/
Of course there are life beyond C++
Don't forget MaxforLive and obviously OPEN SOURCE will be important in the next years. Maybe Ableton "Share" patches into it's new "connect" feature. Maybe not…. it's quite difficult than Bome and Numark NS7 is powered by Bome… (curiosity for collectors)
@josh
http://www.mspinky.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=864
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2008/05/01/digital-…
With these out there… who doesn't want to learn some "coding"…
I can imagine some new "cool" features but I believe that Serato Ableton (in addition to read my mails and other forms of Netnoise) read this kind of messages at forum boards and make homework.
How many of you will love control Live Clips and Live entirely project with DVS or NS7?
Itch, MaxforLive and Scott Wardle are the keywords.
…
So what some of you are saying is that your happy to be limited to whatever the platform your using (traktor / Serato) can offer you?
Horses for Courses, i enjoy the challenge of creating solutions to things it appears that Ableton can't do, i'll concede that the file browser isn't that of a DVS system but then i put the work in before a gig to save my als files in a recognisable file structure, in addition i can simply drag and drop from itunes so it's no great challenge to have a second window open?
[quote post="1339"]This entirely defeats the purpose of Digital DJ’ing. The point of digital technology is to spend less time on menial, wasteful tasks like beatmatching and… you guessed it: Programming, and more time being Creative with your performance. (No, I dont think programming is actually wasteful, but only if you ARE a programmer… otherwise its a complete waste of energy & time to learn such things whilst you should be developing other creative aspects of your digital craft)[/quote]
That i have to take you totally to point with though, Digital DJ'ing does remove such tasks as beatmatching which opens up a world of possibilities for creating other ways of making your performance stand out, again if your happy with your A – B mixing then Ableton isn't for you but if like me you've done too many years of TT's CDJ's etc then it's perfect as a blank canvas has no boundaries of what you can achieve whereas a colouring in book will always end up with a variation of the same theme…
My challenge was simply that in the creation of the solutions new ideas abound, already in my quest for finding a looping solution in Ableton i've managed to emulate the looping features of traktor and deckadance with the hot cues, reverses of Beatlookup…. I'm not about to go out and invest in those platforms as i've invested time in Ableton to get it to where i have it now, someone else will have done the same with Serato or Traktor and i'd love to bounce ideas off them….
A couple of other points, pitch bend has been a feature since Live 7, if your warp modes are set to pitch then you would hear an effect equivalent to using TT's whilst if your prefer complex or beats then the effect is the same as using CDJ's with Master pitch on, with the nudge up and down tempo controls mapped to a couple of buttons with the tempo mapped to a slider (you can even then map the fine tempo to a knob) you will be able to beatmatch with any external input, i can't think of any other reason for needing this feature however…
Secondly yes the reverse function of the looper allows you to instant reverse when using a dummy clip to automate the recording, simple to set up entirely….
Just to make it clear though, i'm not a programmer, never have been and never will be, much of the solutions i create are based on existing solutions that are freely available on the various forums….
And yes i'm more than happy to let people have my Bomes scripts and Live Sets so that they can duplicate the concept simply if they are not comfortable with building from the ground up, many people have done this for me (Bento San included) so i would be being an AXXXXXXXXX if i didn't share…
And i believe that the time spent on this is equivalne toi the time i spent learning rudimentary html so i could set up my website, i long stopped needing a brand for my DJing, my biggest crowd is my Cat and Wife in my basement, but i thought it would be fun to do and i needed a home for my podcast!
Cheers
D
[quote comment=""][…] continue […][/quote]
[quote comment="17860"]…
Vinyl control and File Browser will be arrive with Serato.
…[/quote]
nothing has been anounced as to what the partnership will bring… do you know something we dont?
as far as the partnership goes my money is currently on ableton and its effects being a plugin into serato not the other way around… but time will tell i 'spose 🙂
Not sure if it was mentioned, but Live 8 does have a reverse feature in the looper that is assignable. i'm not a tracktor user so i'm not sure what the instant reverse feature is/was like but the looper seems to be a pretty solid choice for dropping in this kind of effect. you could always just group two tracks together, one that's reversed, and one that's regular,and just assign a controller to the activators, only shut off one activator pre-assigning. this will allow you to "toggle" between the forward playing version and the reverse version. not really all that involved either for a cool trick.
[quote comment=""][…] Its simply not possible and takes up a huge amount of space because live creates full rendered WAV files on your HD of all your MP3s. In my case this leads to about 40GB of songs plus the original MP3 files.[…][/quote]
Doesn't limiting the decoding cache size help with this? I understand why they want to convert to WAV – Decreased latency and system load when you have lots of stuff running – though it doesn't apply as much to straight "me and my {2,3,4} decks" DJ style.
@Tobamai & JM: I think you are both missing the point of this thread Entirely and your comments are not constructive in any way.
Don't you think its a little obvious that they are different tools for different end games…
I think the point is centered around the search FOR an ultimate destination… and if that Was to be Live, this thread (although its not my own yet here I am defending it) is about the search for said utopia.
Complaining is one thing, voicing opinions constructively about ways to IMPROVE software is quite the opposite of complaining.
Besides, its extremely clear from Abletons marketing campaigns that the pool almost All their resources in the Production & Live performance basket… yet its Also equally obvious that they arent prepared to ignore the MASSIVELY growing market of the Digital DJ… Hence why would they even bother with a Serato partnership if this wasnt part of their focus.
@Mudo: I dont quite agree. Issue here is the definition of 'programmer'. Software CODE writer = programmer in a sense that I would classify Bomes 'scripting'.
Richie Hawtin: Not a programmer. (Although might have that skill). You honestly think Richie spends time on coding…ROFL, um, pretty sure he's got a c*ap load better thigns to do with his time. Some of which would include directing his creative opinions towards said programmers so that they can implement for him
Coldcut / Moldover, can't honestly speak for them as I dont know them either (but its a bit obvious with Richie), but what I would put my Money on is that in the light you are puting them, they had a Coding background Before… if not parallel and Separate to their musician/DJ based efforts.
Thus coming full circle, to try and provide a solution to potential shortcomings in a commercial product aimed at bedroom users and professionals alike, you can't then say "go learn how to code in ### language, then you'll have all the answers like me!".
[quote comment="tobamai"][…]To summarize: you’re complaining that your oven isn’t a good microwave. Both of them cook things, but they were designed with different purposes, so they have different features and flaws. Don’t expect oven designers to build their oven around the demands of a microwave user.[…][/quote]
Well put tobamai. Couldn't agree more.
I don't believe Live should ever be a be all end all dj platform. It should simply be used to expand the live experience or for traditional music production IMHO.
I had spent about 6 months setting Live up as a 4 track dj system and did run into all the issues listed above. It was never meant to be used for dj'ing and I don't think it should ever be. I am currently experimenting with syncing Traktor Pro and Live together to enhance my performance and avoid exporting small clips I've build in Live into an audio track simple to be used in Traktor.
Although there are a few fx I miss from traktor: auto pan anyone?, I have been very happy with switching over to Traktor, offering me a more traditional dj setup.
I am curious to see what the serato/ableton partnership comes up with. Although this won't benefit me since I'm not a tradtional dj and don't have record players or cdj's. It's still quite interesting to see what they'll come out with.
To summarize: you're complaining that your oven isn't a good microwave. Both of them cook things, but they were designed with different purposes, so they have different features and flaws. Don't expect oven designers to build their oven around the demands of a microwave user.
I agree that if Ableton is to be the goto solution for dj's it needs a better browser as well as real-time decoding and real-time playback controls (like pitch bend). But I think your idea of what Ableton Live should be is very different from the Ableton development team. Think of it as a streamlined DAW with a "simpler" device inline with every audio track instead of as a dj suite that provides browsing, real time decks, and mixing facilities. Ableton has made it clear through their design decisions that dj'ing with Live is an after thought instead of their priority. Besides, it works well as a mixer (not great, most other DAWs have more flexible audio routing) — just use something else as an audio source, like traktor, deckadance, or soon enough SSL.
From a technical standpoint decoding all of your clips to disk makes a lot of sense. It frees CPU and RAM resources at the cost of disk reads. In a studio setting this makes sense because you want those resources free for fx and synths. More importantly, in a studio setting it isn't unusual to have a very large number of clips open — all of which could start at any given moment. Instead of causing CPU spikes when you start a clip and have to suddenly fill it's decoding buffer from disk as well as decode the audio, you just cause hard drive reads and perform a much less CPU intense decode. It seems small, but if you change scenes it could certainly add up. Also, if you wanted to do instant reverse fx and cue point jumping you would have to decode the audio to RAM and hold it there until the clip is unloaded instead of just reading it from disk, playing it, and dumping it. Most dj's don't use more than 2 decks, even Sasha doesn't play more than 6 clips at a time, so it makes sense for dj's to decode in realtime. The lack of instant reverse in Live without being a buffered fx is obviously with this limitation in mind.
…
I'm not sure.
Richie Hawtin is a musician or a programmer?
Coldcut?
Moldover?
The steps you pursuit are ever one step foward: programming.
In the other hand you have Carl cox and so many others, of course.
…
@Zettt: Your point has some validity, however if it was not a software being targeted to DJ's, then the would not have included features like 'Pitch Nudge' or even the new Looper device (however handy this may be for live artists). So in that light, I still stand fast that Ableton have neglected their browser functionality for as long as I can remember (only hooked into version 4 back in 2004).
They instead implemented fairly useless patent file associations for your 'parts', which are fairly unorthodox to navigate. This is clearly smart thinking with the brakes on… Why give a great feature like song part association, and not provide an intelligent way of recalling it.
[quote comment="17866"]
Great thread for discussion me thinks, has anyone done a like for like feature comparison? What does serato do that traktor doesn't? I guarantee that i can emulate any of the features of these two plus more in Ableton*! Anyone up for the challenge?
Cheers
D
*i may not be able to, b ut i feel ballsy enough to give it my best shot, i haven't failed to create something i want so far, it's all about the building for me![/quote]
I agree, for those who are not already clear on what to software to use a feature comparison would be really quite handy.
However, my challenge to you S4racen I feel will not be so easily solved:
a) I feel very strongly that the Browser feature is one of the most highly overlooked features for a 'dj orientated' Live. So much so that I am currently migrating away from Live and into Traktor Pro… 50% for the Browser features, and the other 50% is for its DJ workflow.
So, how will you replicate this feature??
Note: I've tried even using Beatport's freeware Beatsync exclusively for browsing references, but then you cant drag those files Into Live… so no good.
b) Your point is kind of moot, since you clearly state:
[quote post="1339"]However this comes at a cost, i need a complicated Bomes script to achieve these things[/quote]
This entirely defeats the purpose of Digital DJ'ing. The point of digital technology is to spend less time on menial, wasteful tasks like beatmatching and… you guessed it: Programming, and more time being Creative with your performance. (No, I dont think programming is actually wasteful, but only if you ARE a programmer… otherwise its a complete waste of energy & time to learn such things whilst you should be developing other creative aspects of your digital craft)
Therefore, until your own personal 'replications' using a Bomes script become freely accessible to the public (and stable), And easily implemented, or absorbed into the native program, then they are fairly pointless. The 10? 30? 50+? hours you spend designing each replica is another 50 hours you could have spent researching new music, developing your brand as a DJ, producing music or learning to do so, marketing yourself and networking with fellow musicians.
Whilst this probably sounds pretty negative, I don't mean to sound that way. I entirely respect and commend your efforts at replicating/programming cool & missing features, you obviously have a valuable skill that took some time in developing. This however is the role of a programmer not a musician – to be quick frank.
Cheers
[quote comment=""][…] has anyone done a like for like feature comparison? What does serato do that traktor doesn’t? I guarantee that i can emulate any of the features of these two plus more in Ableton*! Anyone up for the challenge?
[…][/quote]
This is a great idea! And while trying to emulate all the features of different programs, I bet some new and cool tricks get discovered.
The answer to Instant Reverse is coming soon, in fact Ableton allows for modulations of virtually every one of the DVS systems out in the marketplace….
I can instant reverse, loop and allow play to continue underneath or stop playback until loop is ended…..
However this comes at a cost, i need a complicated Bomes script to achieve these things and this is before i even start with the beat mashing, dummy clips etc etc…
Overall Live 8 has exceeded my expectations, it's not a pick up and go experience, you need to invest many many hours to get the most out of it as a DJ experience, i'd agree there are simpler options out there….
Great thread for discussion me thinks, has anyone done a like for like feature comparison? What does serato do that traktor doesn't? I guarantee that i can emulate any of the features of these two plus more in Ableton*! Anyone up for the challenge?
Cheers
D
*i may not be able to, b ut i feel ballsy enough to give it my best shot, i haven't failed to create something i want so far, it's all about the building for me!
spot on. Ableton is a great piece of software, but is still lacking a few things to make it the be all end all for DJ's
bit off topic, but anyone know what brand laptop that is in the pic?
looks almost as fresh as a macbook
Given that I do have 2 laptops, it looks like instead of looking to eventually route Traktor through Ableton, the option of bringing Maschine into the mix has become more appealing:
Though I wonder why they are feeding Maschine into Traktor and not the other way around? Anyways a bit offtopic.
@Adam G: I think they don't have a built in "Record Browser" because Live is more a "normal" sequencer than a DJ Tool. People just found out that it's pretty awesome to use it for playing live…but you're totally right! After all the years they really should implement such features because people will have a benifit.
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All of these features will be implemented with Maxforlive and Serato Link by yourself (or by somebody)
Vinyl control and File Browser will be arrive with Serato.
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@Lukas They removed the reverse function in Traktor as well? *sigh* We really need such toys!
But having no native playback for compressed formats is really odd. It eats up so much harddisk space. 🙁
[quote post="1339"]not all of your songs always sync up perfectly[/quote]
[quote comment=""]
Umm….I'm pretty sure Live DOES sync perfectly. If your tracks drift out then your markers are no good. Of course, there are tracks (ripped from Vinyl) which are extremely time consuming to warp as their tempo 'drifts' but with enough markers you will have no problem keeping them in perfect sync.
All other features you've mentioned are a Must have for Live to compete with the every increasing migration to Traktor Pro.
The only "critical" area which consistently is overlooked is a Music Dedicated Browser which includes playlists, ID3 tags (inc Album Art) etc… Ableton REALLY need to sort this out and learn from Traktor. Presently it is so counter intuitive to browse for songs during a set, which, if you want to be firing on all cylinders, leads one to have to prepare a live set ahead of time with all tracks you 'may use' in your project… No good for screen realestate not to mention the data you cant view (which I mentioned previously).
An intuitive browser for live could even go as far as incorporating quick references to all pre-arrange loops and cut up sections of tracks (if you make any), and link all manner of samples/melodic/bass/percussive parts which you may like to associate with each track. It's pretty poor to have to save them in 'little packs' to use one day if you can remember where and what they are, not to mention the folders you will have to navigate through.
If I remember anything else I'll post it up.
Good thread, lets just pray Ableton are listening!
Adam
The site lists "Supports AIFF, WAV, MP3, Ogg Vorbis and FLAC files". So for all but WAV, Live will actually first convert it to a WAV? That sucks pretty badly. Also AAC is notably missing from this list.
As for reverse playback. Maybe I do not understand the features in Ableton and Traktor sufficiently but I did notice this thread on the NI forums:
http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthrea…