DJ Rob Ticho
Chances are high you have probably tried out both Ableton Live and Traktor only to discover that each program has different strengths and weaknesses. While I primarily use Traktor for DJing, there are aspects of Ableton, such as playing midi instruments live, which I’ve always wanted to incorporate into my sets. In hopes to have the best of both worlds, I spent some time and money figuring out a simple to connect the two programs on 2 laptops. Now I would like to share that knowledge with Dj TechTools so others can try out that great combo as well.
This tutorial will cover the steps required to run each program on a separate laptop and mix them together on a standard audio DJ mixer. Dj TT published a comprehensive tutorial on how to do the same thing with only one laptop, but it involves some complex routing and a lot of software. This approach is a simple way to sync up 2 laptops using basic hardware and no additional software. You could also use this method to sync up 2 djs on separate laptops using Traktor or Ableton.
Before you go any further I need to mention the hardware required for this process.
- Two laptops- One for Ableton, one for Traktor (Mine are cheap PCs but work great.)
- 3 channel audio mixer (I’m using 3 channels on the Behringer DJX 700)
- 2 Channel sound Card for Traktor( Like the Hercules MKII DJ console or Audio 4)
- Midi Controller for Traktor ( Like the M-Audio Oxygen 8 v2)
- Y cable (Running Ableton from the Headphone out to the mixer)
- Any audio Interface with Midi IN and OUT (For example the M-Audio Midisport Uno)
- Optional: Controller for Ableton (Akai MPK 49 midi controller)
Sending MIDI from Traktor
I decided it would be best for Traktor to be the master tempo program as my tracks there are more likely to vary in BPM. This means that Traktor will control the BPM of Ableton in order to keep all the music in sync. You can also set up Traktor to work as the slave machine if you would like.
- Go to the preferences window and then midi config(Figure 1)
- Select a midi interface with midi out (I used the Oxygen 8)
- Below that select “Send to MIDI clock”
(Take a note of the MIDI Clock Setting Offset as you might need to adjust this for perfect timing between the two programs.)
Figure2
- close the config panel and click on the metronome in the upper left hand corner of the screen. (Picture above)
- You can set the clock to Auto (Traktor will send out the tempo of the master deck to Ableton)
- Alternately, Set the clock to internal and manually set the tempo that Traktor will send.
- Click on the Play/Pause Icon to start sending clock
- Click on sync while in the performance to re-trigger the downbeat
Bridging the gap
Now that there is a MIDI clock running from Traktor out of the Oxygen controller, we needed to get it into the second laptop. This is where the M-Audio Midisport Uno comes in. We will connect that audio interface to the Ableton computer and run a single midi cable OUT of the Oxygen 8 and into the Uno.
Setting up Ableton
Now that MIDI is running into the second computer go ahead and open Ableton and get the MIDI sync.\
- Go to Options and then preferences
- Select the Midi input of your midi interface
- Check track and snyc options. (Figure 3)
Figure 3
In the upper left hand part of the Ableton screen you will see a yellow box reading EXT. (Figure 4) There will be a yellow square that blinks in time with the MIDI signal. I also should note that when the EXT is yellow, Ableton is waiting for Traktor to tell it to play. This is done by pressing the midi clock sync button in traktor (Highlighted in Figure 2).
Figure 4
Step Four Perfecting the sync
Now that Traktor is driving the BPM of Ableton, it’s time to make the final tweaks to get them perfectly in sync. It’s not uncommon that the sync will be slightly off due to all the latency between the systems and various controllers.
After much tweaking, I found that the best way to sync the two is to play both of the metronomes. For this use the “Tick” button in Traktor (figure 2). In Ableton, click the metronome button which is in the last button in the upper left hand menu near the EXT button (Figure 4).
It’s possible to adjust the MIDI offset in Traktor, however, I’ve found that adjusting the track delay in Ableton gives you more control. To display the track delay go to View and then check Track Delay. Then adjust the overall track delay which is found under the master channel. (Figure 4) A setting of 3 seconds worked for me.
Rock out
That’s it, you should be ready to blare tunes and mix between the systems. One last piece of advice, sometimes you may need to resend the MIDI sync from Traktor if your timing changes. When you do that, Ableton might bork out for a second. I’ve compensated for this by making sure that Ableton is not playing during the re-sync process.
what a waste….. im using one laptop using two software ableton+traktor at the sam time work great….
I synced up Abelton and Traktor before. This is such a ineffiecent way of doing it. The best way is to use midi yoke and WACnetworkmidi and a crossover cable. Send the clock to midi yoke, set wacnetwork midi to master and recieve midi on that channel. On the other computer, set WACnetworkmidi to send the midi info through midi yoke. then in ableton you receive the midi info from that midi yoke channel. Synced.
Only problem is, you need a really good computer to run Traktor. I would say I’m pushing my laptop a bit, but when you throw midi clock on top of it, crackle crackle crackle, and ableton will get periodically out of sync. Midi clock is shitty. its good for synths, but for a full set, its bound to get knocked out. NI GIVE TRAKTOR MTC ALREADY. >.>
I just posted on another topic. Native Instruments needs to accept that their market wants Rewire capacity.
Hey, i have a question. We are two partners, i mix with Traktor Scratch and my partner with ableton. We want to make live shows using the two softwares. I have an Audio 8 Dj soundcard. Can i use it like you use the Oxygen 8 as midi interface?
Hey man,
thanks for posting this tutorial online. Im about to pull the trigger on buying all the hardware you mentioned because this looks like something REALLY worth the time and money and effort, but before I do that, i want to know: what purpose does the Behringer mixer serve in this set up? and can a Hercules RMX be substituted for the MKII?
Hi i have ran it through my MBP 17′ via Audio 8 as the midi port this works ok but sometimes the BPM can start to jump around.
does anyone know how i can stop this, im djing at pacha this wkend and would love a little advice before hand.
Cheers kdk
hi
It seems that here it doesnt work and the way explained above seems a bit weird… has anyone tried it so far?
Great work!
I wish i had found this earlier, as a friend and i were trying to link up our computers in a similar fashion. Our Initial concept was to “jam ” using Logic and ableton, and we used the same technique that you demonstrated in order to have it in time.
we used an Emagic mt/4 , and a Fire wire 410. worked brilliantly.
cheers
hi
i have tried this method with no success…
I dont get signal from traktor in ableton and everything is set up like you mentioned..
what makes me believe is the problem is that i dont see any sign in audio 8dj that midi is connected neither in traktor’s midi set up boxes…
someone can help?
Ok, I have a Korg Zero 8, so I should be able to use the MIDI clock from the mixer to sync both Traktor and Ableton. I realise changing the BPM on the mixer will then have a negative effect on any internal effects on Traktor or Ableton but are there any other issues? I’m sure the FX problem can be avoided if I don’t touch it while running any Delays etc. (Should be easier to avoid if mixing all digital) but what other problems could I run into?
hy, if posible do that if i use a MIDISPORT UNO INTERF. M-AUDIO (Uno
1-In/1-Out USB Bus-Powered MIDI Interface) but if conect the usb in the lapt where i use ableton and conect the midi out to a M-audio fast track pro ( whit the audio of the traktor pro, of the other laptop) is a problem, or i dont know if i will have problem , for use the same sound card, or not?
thanks
I mean Tobamai. Jesus…
Oops. I literally just said the same thing you did, Badnote. Finishing my coffee now to prevent further idiocy. 🙂
[quote comment=”19634″]Traktor doesn’t do rewire. AFAIK torq is the only dj suite to offer rewire, but the thing they never mention is that torq only works as a rewire slave. The rewire protocol doesn’t allow for any audio to be pushed to the slave… so you can’t use timecode while torq is the rewire slave.[/quote]
It’s even worse than that. At least in the version of Torq I tried this with (never upgraded to 1.5) it wouldn’t support “external control mode” (i.e. DVS mode) when acting as a ReWire slave. The whole reason I had the program was to use it as a DVS, so that limitation was a deal breaker.
This is probably heresy, but has anyone managed to sync Traktor with Serato? I regularly play with a friend who uses Serato and it would be great to have just that little bit more accuracy to allow for longer blends when we’re playing really deep.
[quote comment=””]NI Traktor ? Ableton Live ?????????…
Best of Both Worlds- Traktor and Ableton at djtechtools.com??????????????????DTM?Tips???????????????????????????????????????????…[/quote]
All you have to do is run a steady loop in Traktor or a beat that you have perfected the beat grid. . . then play a steady beat in Ableton that you have also warped to perfection. . . then adjust the latency utill it matches
Hello DJtechtools.
I would gladly appreciate any help on syncing two laptops with traktor. I know is with the midiclock. I hear italoboyz or hawtin crew hook all them together.
Any help appreciated:)
[quote comment=””]NI Traktor ? Ableton Live ?????????…
Best of Both Worlds- Traktor and Ableton at djtechtools.com??????????????????DTM?Tips???????????????????????????????????????????…[i don’t know why macs are so popular with djs I mean my school used to have macs and my new school has some but, i mean it’s that their to expensive and the option are still open on a pc for mixing if they were cheaper i have one. /quote]
also, don’t forget the jackpilot method! it cost 0 money and is very nice….+ easy to set up.
PERFECT! this works when me and my buddy DJ together on Traktor. saves his horrible beatmatching skills 😛
Oh I guess to sum up, if you get to a point where you are soloing with the synths, how do you rebuild the layers of music in traktor without dropping to silence (if you are playing fully live synths, with no samples)? Do you just have to pre plan what the next track to drop after your synth solo would finish?
You said that you like using synths live, my question to you is are you learning grooves that you are then playing live, or are you laying down new tracks (ie. 4 bar grooves) to overlay your currently playing music, and then letting them loop? If you aren’t recording and looping in ableton, but are just playing everything live (ie. everytime an individual sound occurs you hit a key corresponding to a synth note) then are you cueing what you play on the synth mid performance, or just totally grooving live with whatever comes to your head. Thanks for the article btw. I ask you these questions because now that my setup includes a keyboard that I can dedicate to live and a vci and nanopad for traktor I would like to start incorporating live synths into my set as I feel like this will make the show much more special and fun for me.
Traktor doesn’t do rewire. AFAIK torq is the only dj suite to offer rewire, but the thing they never mention is that torq only works as a rewire slave. The rewire protocol doesn’t allow for any audio to be pushed to the slave… so you can’t use timecode while torq is the rewire slave.
tactor deosnt have rewire capabilities already?
I want to say it’s so cool to read everyone’s response and their own strategies on how to accomplish something like my set up.
While I see the advantage of running both programs from one computer, I like the comfort of having two machines. If I was running both programs on one machine and it froze up, I’d be screwed with a packed dancefloor. (Well, hopefully the dancefloor would be packed.)
Though I haven’t had a laptop freeze or crash on me during a set, it’s still a fear. I work at a web dev company and see all the crazy stuff that goes on with computers on a daily basis. I’ve also seen Torq freeze a number of times on friends. Super scary.
Dj Broka,
My PC laptops are usually bought on sale at some place like Best Buy. I’ve also picked up computers at http://www.cdw.com/ and http://www.refurbdepot.com/
My newest laptop is a toshiba that I bought for $500 when circuit city was closing. My other 3 year old laptop was purchased for about the same price. I spent another $40 for more RAM and it works great with every audio program despite it’s cheap price and age.
Where did you get your cheap PC’s? I’m forced to buy one myself, so I’d like to know where I can find good products for cheap price! 😉
[quote comment=””]NI Traktor ? Ableton Live ?????????…
Best of Both Worlds- Traktor and Ableton at djtechtools.com??????????????????DTM?Tips???????????????????????????????????????????…[/quote]
you can use m audio torq and ableton in the same computer using rewire, is really cool and less expensive.
i’ve really wanted to try this for a long time but I can’t afford the gear update to make it happen – doh!
[quote comment=”19603″]…i think you should mention http://www.nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html aswell. this software cost you some $ but it will let you send the midi beatclock over lan (even wireless lan)…[/quote]
EthernetMIDI does this too, and it’s free. Works on Windows:
http://www.linuxsampler.org/ethernetmidi/
(Pay no attention to the domain name – it’s a Windows program!)
If ableton live is the MIDI slave it won’t use Live’s built in delay compensation for fx. Which is probably where your “slightly out of sync” problems are coming from. It also means that if you build a patch that allows you to swap between fx you’ll get audio that’s out of time with the rest of the patch by very small (buffer sized) amounts. This is all easily avoided if you just run Ableton live as the master and sync traktor to it.
Traktor 1.0.1 does fine with this. It tracks the MIDI clock slowly, but it stays on it. The later versions track the clock too quickly and introduce fluctuations in the audio because they’re picking up jitter.
that’s an LX2
http://faderfox.de/html/lx2_product_page.html
Hi ! What is the controller you have your hand on on the second picture please ? Thanks.
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Good work.
…
You could even send the midi clock and controller signals through ipMIDI or some similiar program.. 🙂
It should be noted that the smartmixing article also encompases audio routing and this is just sending for midi syncing. Theres also an 11 page long thread in the forums specificly on this subject that is highly recommended reading material to anyone doing a midi sync – http://www.djtechtools.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3663
Good article though, this sums up how to use the midi clock rather well.
nice article, but i think you should mention http://www.nerds.de/en/ipmidi.html aswell. this software cost you some $ but it will let you send the midi beatclock over lan (even wireless lan) and the best thing, if your are running to macs, you dont even have to spend a dollar, since its natively built into osx…
[quote comment=””]i’m getting it done in one 2,2 ghz 15″ Macbook pro without any fuss…
I use Xone 4D, and just route a midi clock from TS to Live opening a midi track colecting the midi signal from TS. It works flawlessly, and does not require any additional software whatsoever…
RTFM… its all there![/quote]
Hi, Lapix thanks for the input, would you mind elaborating on your method?
i’m getting it done in one 2,2 ghz 15″ Macbook pro without any fuss…
I use Xone 4D, and just route a midi clock from TS to Live opening a midi track colecting the midi signal from TS. It works flawlessly, and does not require any additional software whatsoever…
RTFM… its all there!
Yo,
thats looks really cool man… wish I had two pcs to do it
Looks like it’s time to repair the broken machine in my room time to get the soldering iron out.