Why DJ With Ableton Live?

Oh man this is gooood! I love the information so much! This will surely help me with my project for seamedu.com
Thank you again! Loved it!

To you all Live lovers and recognize urself as a DJ.

Deadmau5 is not a DJ. he is producer.
same goes to Daft Punk.

Ableton Live is for the producer in concert.

Ableton Live can’t full fill clubbing crowds unless you are famous DJ or Producer this means crowds came to club to see you, then you can use Live. because they will love whatever you play.

if crowds dont know you then basically people in the club don’t want to hear your created or produced music more than mainstream musics.

DJ should fullfill what crowds need in the club.

For those who make playlist home and bring it to the club.
Ableton Live may works once of many tries in the club.
You may make the club night successful but chances are low.

You gotta learn how to lead the mood instantly. your spending alot of hours at home set just can’t do this.

If you are producer, and want to do some live instrument playing with Ableton then go Ableton Live. but you gotta have alot of fans if not, you will fail big time. but you won’t still know ur bad. because some would scream for you even though ur not good. also remember this, crowds basically won’t come up to you and say YOU SUCK!

If you don’t make beats and trying to use Ableton in the club with Top40, EDM w/e
and spending many hours at home and bring it to the club.
You are not a DJ. anyone can do it with WAV editor and burn it on a CD.

if you want to become a real DJ,

For example, Armin Van Buuren I call him DJ. He uses CDJ even though he is producer, He plays 2-3 songs in the beginning and check how the crowds likes it and then he choose the music one by one.

Disc Jockey is all about live mixing and should pick up songs in live, not premade list in home.

Please call yourself a Producer. NOT DJ. WTF

I love Live. To me those who use live are the ones that the traditional two deck dj’s are spinning. I Use live to Dj, and perform. I run Guitars through it using Amplitube along with Abelton’s effects then through My Fender amp while performing with 2 apc40’s, a Padkontrol, 2 fcb1010’s, Groovemachine, a slew of vst’s assigned to midi keys, a ton of effect racks and a KP3. Rather Dj’ing or performance improvisation, it’s a breeze after you learn how to use it. I really don’t remember what it was like before Live because I’ve never looked back!

Is it the virtual DJ? I like this software it does a great job and best and affordable for beginners.

Couldn’t agree more with Rik. If your playing the music, in all counts, the set has to be outstanding for the crowd. It’s what they’ll remember most. I’ve been into Traktor Pro for around 2 years now, and still love it. It’s only downside is not really being able to use all four decks because when activated it takes all of my computer screen up. I think this limits some potential creativity with looping from other tracks. I love having a pair of decks in front of me, it’s what makes it fun, spontaneous. I’ve only just started out with Abelton, because I want to write a track. I am blown away by what I can do with it. My wife will hate me for the next 365 days of no conversation each night, and to be honest I really don’t have time to learn another piece of kit. 
So I’m leaving Abelton to be Abelton at home, and enjoy the music and fun of mixing in the bar and club. What I least want is to have my head stuck in a laptop and not enjoying the experience with the crowd.

you wrote that you can’t play mp3 files in ableton and that you have to convert them first. this is not true. i DJ with ableton and i have no problems playing wav, mp3 and even wma files…

When I was DJing records in the late 70 and through the 80s as a resident DJ 5 nights a week, a good DJ was considered a guy who played records but knew WHAT to play… regular people dont know what the hell a mix is really…they just know when it all sounds good and sounds good for hours…to them THATS a DJ. You simply played good records for people. Your ability to read what people wanted to hear was and IS still the most important part of DJing NOT the mix. A mix is a small factor of DJing… most of you here were not even born When I started to DJ. Today I still DJ in a club… I now use Traktor Pro (looking forward to Traktor Pro 2 the 1st of April) )and have Ableton Live installed and and learning how to use it also and am looking at V-DJM 2ch for Ableton. The definition of a DJ has once again changed or has it. I think we have created a new bread to which we may call them Live Producer… This is where I am going … I want to create be version of music or even my own song LIVE… DJ Mixng is a physical aspect to which it also was new in the 70s and the early DJs of the 60s did not consider it to be DJing… everything changes…. the question is …are you going with the flow or are you going to be left behind… I am GLAD that beat mixing is leaving the music scene… Don’t get me wrong I still have my 4 SL-1200 and over 7000 records dating back to the early seventies and will never sell any of it… You want respect… hell mix a 6 hour set of music from the 70s and 80s and not double beat once… after a year you will have to change the pitch sliders because they are wore out…now THATS a challenge… Today… I take two recent records and take my 5 seconds to beat match the two songs then go make diner and take a shower and they will be in perfect sync when I get back… What counts for me is the music you play… If it give me the itch to dance then your doing a good job… soooo what you use makes no difference…anyway…the people usually cant see what your using (well at least in all the venues I worked in they couldn’t) and most of them dont care either.

DJ Rik Sparta

Ableton may be daunting especially if you havnt used d,w,s before ableton has the capabilities to mix great sets off the fly for best results you just have to set it up right .
Your also made to look more in depth thus improving on your knowledge of the way music is constructed most big named djs are now creating there own samples and tracks adding more of a personal touch i dont believe tractor and virtual dj mix as smooth and precise as live when its set up right at all

@Pieter Christiaens
i read will`s post and he says that all software decodes to wav..come on that’s completely wrong,i dont think that software like virtual dj,atomix,future decks and almost all shitty software can convert to wav on the fly
can you prove that traktor converts to wav? or at least give us a hint in the decoding done almost on the fly,because traktor is very fast,i don`t think that i can decode from mp3 to wav in such a short time..when i load a new track it gets ready in max 4 seconds on 4 gb ram an 3000 mHz,while in ableton it takes 15-40 seconds to convert to wav,make the wave display even without warp selected when you load the file.
and another thing,in ableton on the file folder pref you have the option to select the amount of mb used for decoding…i see this option only in ableton
so,believe me traktor does not convert mp3 to wav!
you can check this by checking the partition space every time you load a track ..

@echo66
i see ean golden using traktor for his dj setup and he does more then beatmatch songs,and gues what..all of that is done live..

in the end i want to get back to this topic by saying again,use ableton live as it should be used…dont start to make a war of choices here by saying what does that has and what the other don’t . its your right to use anything you want,but make sure you analyze the alternatives too..i use both,ableton and traktor and im happy and proud of the results. why? because what i cannot do in traktor i can do in ableton and what i cannot do in ableton i can do in traktor..

ABLETOM IS SOOOOO WEAK! YOUR A CHUMP ASS DJ if you use ableton, actually your not a DJ. Your simply an idoit..

@Will Marshall
LOL,ableton is the only that converts to wav..i use only traktor ,and i can tell you 100% that it doesn’t converts mp3 to wav,it only analyzes the file to make a wave display,detect bpm,make the beatgrid.
converting from mp3 320kbs to wav doesn’t give the file more quality.it only makes it more good to work with the warp engine in ableton

@jprime
if you choose to do what you have described in your post you need to know the following stuff:
-live`s warp engine can be a pain in the ass..you can have the start of the song perfectly warped and after 30-40,1 min,or somewhere in the song things turn out ugly like shifting from 124 bpm to 128
i said the part about coming with your set done because the majority of people does that,not that i can be used only like that.
and this was my end message :
“use ableton live as its should be used,and that is his name,so use it LIVE,even if it is a little bit harder it gives you more satisfaction of your work ,so act like a pro and do something LIVE,don’t go to clubs with your homework done!“
so don`t misjudge me man 😉

[quote comment=”38298″]I’ve used Live for production and once even to perform. I will say it’s not for me as a DJ tool.

My biggest grudge is the lack of true MP3 support. I know some guys will keep all their stuff as Wav files, but I have MP3 and would rather not get memory alerts from my computer because it’s storing all those Wav files it creates in a cache.

I also don’t like the amount of time it takes to warp and get all your tunes set up. I prefer how I have things now with Torq. I scan the MP3 with BPM Analyzer, then bring it into Torq and have it scan and make the beatmap.

Sync or manual beatmatch, I like the way I do things now, which is cool because everyone can pick a product to do things as they see fit. I won’t knock those who use Live, but I will say it’s perfect for those who like to remix more on the fly, make mashups, and do more performance/production based things. I wouldn’t recommend it for the average joe who wants to just DJ stuff normally. Maybe use Deckadance as a VST in there if you want the best of both worlds.

I do hope Ableton takes a cue from Logic and perhaps makes a more DJ-friendly mode. I know there is Serato Bridge, but I mean on its own.[/quote]

I haven’t had any problems on the rare occasion I have used MP3s in Ableton.
However, I wouldn’t suggest using mp3s on a large sound system anyways. Too many variables (different sound qualities recording studio to studio; different qualities from mp3 compressor to mp3 compressor). However, I definately don’t hate on anyone who makes mp3s work for them.

I prefer FLAC (for storage and is at least twice the br of a 320)and uncompressed as wavs for working.

You have to actually select to load a track into your RAM in Ableton so you shouldn’t be getting warnings that your memory is being maxed out unless you are loading an UPton of clips into memory which on any newer computer isn’t neccesary. I am using a 4 year old PC laptop with only 2GIG of RAM without this issue.

Also, those who want to remain on the A-B paradigm can still benefit from learning Ableton if nothing more than a very useful sampler. Or, the effects racks 🙂

At any rate, if you have found a method that works for you and the technology is still servicable then keep at it!

It seems to me that the only people paying any attention to what the DJs are doing are other DJs (general statement of course).

Interesting subject btw.

It’s ridiculous the amount of people that assume you have to “come prepared with a pre planned set” in Ableton.

You can mix it up on the fly in Ableton like any other DJ software. no fucking problem.

I use Channels 1 and 2 in my Session view interface as my two main “decks.”
Each channel has an EQ3 on it, there’s my lows, mids, and highs taken care of.
I might even toss an effect or two on each channel, or maybe some right on the master channel, whatever.

I’ll use the file browser in Abe to pick a song and drag it to a deck. No pre planning, just play away. Hell it’s even funner when I choose a track from the library that hasn’t been warped. Seeing how quickly you can warp on the fly is kinda fun.

I’ve used Live for production and once even to perform. I will say it’s not for me as a DJ tool.

My biggest grudge is the lack of true MP3 support. I know some guys will keep all their stuff as Wav files, but I have MP3 and would rather not get memory alerts from my computer because it’s storing all those Wav files it creates in a cache.

I also don’t like the amount of time it takes to warp and get all your tunes set up. I prefer how I have things now with Torq. I scan the MP3 with BPM Analyzer, then bring it into Torq and have it scan and make the beatmap.

Sync or manual beatmatch, I like the way I do things now, which is cool because everyone can pick a product to do things as they see fit. I won’t knock those who use Live, but I will say it’s perfect for those who like to remix more on the fly, make mashups, and do more performance/production based things. I wouldn’t recommend it for the average joe who wants to just DJ stuff normally. Maybe use Deckadance as a VST in there if you want the best of both worlds.

I do hope Ableton takes a cue from Logic and perhaps makes a more DJ-friendly mode. I know there is Serato Bridge, but I mean on its own.

i use live for production,pod-casting,and as a add-on to my dj setup.i use traktor to send the midi clock over to ableton where i have some loops,2drum racks (1 for percussion and 1 for fx`s) with one shot samples,the maschine vst and other vst`s..
i hate going to a gig with my homework done.what is the point of mixing if you already have your set ready to play?
coming with a set in ableton to a club is good only for beginners that cannot work live on cdj or live mixing software,or for peoples who are afraid of something going wrong during the mix..
@chriscosour
yes,the point of dj-ing is to rock your crowd.but ableton as stand alone is very limited for some basic dj stuff :
cannot make cue`s (for beat juggling)and loops on the fly,the looper plugin just records a loop,so its not so good,and the basic problem is that you cannot scratch/rewind like on vinyl/cdj)
for me the purpose of live used live is either to make a live act,a jam,or just to play some more sound over a track or a band..
the saddest part that i regret about ableton is the partnership with serato ..traktor would of been the best weapon along with ableton in the bridge,but the N.I guys can be a pain in the you know what some times…..
i dont like serato first of all because of his visual interface,specially the wave display…not that i care about he beauty,but is hard to work with.traktor`s wave display and its GUI are a friendly interface,witch helps a lot and gives you trust and pleasure working with it.and in the and we all know that traktor is way over serato (the midi mapping,the pref. menu,the audio engine,the reaktor based fx`s ..)
so in the end :
use ableton live as its should be used,and that is his name,so use it LIVE,even if it is a little bit harder it gives you more satisfaction of your work ,so act like a pro and do something LIVE,don’t go to clubs with your homework done!
ps: you can use live for podcasts or sets but don play them in a club,its playback and you lie to yourself..

Ive been using live for around a year now with a APC40 and SL25 MKII for djing and production.

I learnt to DJ on a purely vinyl setup and for years i was producing little spirited attempts at EDM with fruityloops.

I never really wanted to use CDJ’s, i never saw the point in downloading Mp3s then burning to disc, just to dj in the original 2 deck type format & once i found traktor, shit it was life changing.

But i wanted more, i questioned why i would use two different programs to produce and dj: then i i found LIVE.

The thing that has always appealed to me most about djing with live is the fact that most people who use it to dj probably have differing setups, there will undoubtedly be similarities but it just so personal, everything is where you want it (or put it).

My setup works for me, even though after a year i’ve only scratched the surface i know that there a literally endless opportunities for different technique that i can conquer. I like that i have the ability to practice playing along to songs with my SL whilst djing with the APC. Whilst id never yet do this live, it increases my aptitude for production and musicality and helps me to delve even deeper into my tunes.

There is definitely times when i feel limited, when i feel like maybe just firing traktor back up for simplicities sake, but there is always a work around.

Like discussed previously in this comment thread im always startled when i see comments about beatmatching or lack of WTF? arent you over it yet? I dont understand how some people are so blind to the new age of controllerism that they are ready to limit themselves to a digital reinterpretation of the original DJ setup.

Djing should always be about its roots, to get people on the f%&kin D-FLOOR. The system you use to do this? Thats your choice, i only have one ask : just that you rock me to my core!

“integrate third party digital vinyl systems such as Ms. Pinky”

And no mention of The Bridge? Interesting.

You guys looking for the perfect controller to add EQ controls to every clip on ableton, look no further: http://www.lividinstruments.com/hardware_code.php
It ain’t free tho

The thing that turns me off to Ableton is there’s no way to set a default loop size. There is the loop plug-in, but let’s be real, it sucks for DJs and the manner we use loops. At first the built in looper in the clip window seems awesome, till you click “set” and realize it’s put the end point at the end of your song. Now, I may be wrong, and there may already be a way to do this, but, it seems like that loop would be a lot more useful if you could set in preferences that the loop function would do 4-bar loop. Then you could tweak and do whatever the heck you want to it after that.

live is a very powerful tool but not knowing how to beatmach shouldn’t be an excuse to use it. It really ain’t that hard and it’s the only thing that would help you with a “not so well” warped clip. Geez, it’ even trains your ears to recognize when things start phasing out and fix it before “mortals” hear it.

traktor/serato follow the X decks + mixer paradigm wich aint bad at all and works perfecty well on lots of different situations. on the other hand, live it’s just an empty rack for you to play with and this is what scares most people away, they have too much freedom and don’t know even where to start, so they duplicate try to replicate the “deck” setup, leaving most of ableton’s benefits behind. Both have their pros and cons so it’s your choice to pick one or combo them 🙂

for the average joe/top40/wedding dj or whatever, ableton it’s just overkill because you really don’t have much room to fiddle with the knobs until the audience gives u the wtf look. Keep in mind not everyone wants to hear remixes on the fly or epic efecting, they just like to hear what they heard 3489263492784 times already. this limits the dj’s creativity to song selection and mixes, that certainly doesn’t make anyone less of a dj, you need read the crowd and perform for THEM, not yourself. most of the live sets i’ve heard are plain boring because the performer either a) plays full songs and every now and then drops a tool over it (meaning he’s just lazy to match a pair of tunes or even drop a sample in time) b) set it’s not flexible at all and can’t keep up if crowd is not responding c) they use live because it’s cool to say it
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve experienced some awesome livesets as well but less often than I would like to.

I’m not saying everyone should beatmatch everything, but if you do sync, use the time for something useful! not trying to look cool by playing with an empty channel or chilling while the song advances.

Maybe it’s just me but since djing is becaming more and more popular I see people just letting the machines do their thing and have 0 innovation whatsoever (and they don’t even mix half decently, respect or care about phrasing!). I know time will wear out posers, but it still hurts to watch/hear. I think most forgot this is an artform and we are forward looking people driven by passion, oh well 🙁

sorry for the off topic, i needed to get it out of my system.

summing up, choose your weapon and rock the hell out of it.

“deadmau5 doesn’t use headphones with Live….can someone please explain this”

many times with Traktor you can do without headphones if all songs are cue and loop marked. Same is with ableton. it is all prepaired.

I know this has nothing to do with this, but please, you’ve got to see this… I’m really excited!!!

CHeck this out!!! Reactable for iPhone and iPad!!!!

deadmau5 doesn’t use headphones with Live….can someone please explain this

[quote comment=”38236″]I like DJing with Ableton Live, much more powerful than Traktor in my opinion, but surely needs a lot of pre-gig work.

My main problem with Ableton DJing is… which controller to use?
The fact is that most of the midi controllers out there such as the APC-40 don’t have EQs, there are meant for live pa.

I have only found those solutions so far:
– M-Audio UC33, pretty old, lacks clip launches buttons but does the job. Light and pretty cheap.
– Vestax VCI-600: expensive, big & heavy, lots of buttons but 6 channels instead of 8 for the UC-33.
– Faderfox, love those but would need at least 4 of them…

I use the M-Audio Xsession Pro. Again needs more buttons and the faders need LED as you have to look at the screen to see where they are at. Also I was resting it on the mixer the other week in a tight environment and the heat malfunctioned the xfader, lucky still had the vertical volume faders to work with.
– Korg zero-8: too big for me, and discontinued anyway.

If you have an other solution I would be glad to hear about it.

My dream controller would be an upgraded UC33, with a few transport buttons, more solid faders & knobs, a couple of endless knobs maybe and that’s all. I don’t understand why M-Audio completely gave up on this controller while so many artists are still using it.[/quote]

Uhmm sorry for the cold water, but it’s needed.

It seem it is too EARLY to join the party…

R you Interested? Then check the forums about Live and see for yourself. It needs bug fixes in a monthy basis and basically when you start to complex the set-up (adding controllers, plug-ins, drivers, soundcards, etc.)then it is not rare that it crashes or malfunctions… Most of us simply cannot afford that to happen, we dont have the “other musicians” to keep jamming while it restarts or gets back on track.

Moreover, at October 2010 it is NOT EVEN yet ABLE to operate on x64 Operating Systems PC or Mac. This means Live is NOT yet compatible with Windows 7-64bit or XP-64 bit!!! then it’s not able to work with 4 Gigas RAM PC/Laptop.
Are you wanting to upgrade to the new Laptop generation? looking for an i3, i7 processor?… 4 cores possibly? Then Live wont notice all that expense; it will work mostly on one core. Not even Core 2 DUO will be fully utilised. I’d gathered that its internal (soft)engine is far from optimizing the power multicore CPUs nowadays have…

Ableton may come out with functioning new 64 bit Drivers, that will belp a lot, but it will take time for them to optimize it up to the new capacities. Apparently Ableton has been long lousy with the programming side of Live. Its Managers took the route of focusing on making alliances with plenty of third party companies and kept adding requested funcionalities while trying to fix bugs. But the internal programing foundation has grown shaky an unefficient. Many reject its use as recording DAW because of the alleged poor sound quality. Uffs.

Then, Why am I posting all this?
Have zero hate for Ableton or Live, on the contrary.
Because Live is my dreamt-software-interface and unless we prospective (and actual) users share balanced and relevant information in the forums, unless we talk about this, then it will be a difficult road for those adopting it now and facing the shortcomings the system TODAY still has.
Advice; you want to buy it? then first register in its forum and join the -very reasonable- requests quest.

Yes it will be great, amazing. And I deeply hope it happens soon, for that, it will need all support AND requests we interested users may give.
Excellent article DJ Techtools.

It’s amazing how many anti-DJ Technology folk visit this DJ Technology website.

We get it – you love manually beat-matching. We’re all pleased for you.

When did all this stop being about the music? Surely if the people on the dancefloor are dancing and having fun – then that it enough? Look at it this way – think of the best night out you’ve ever had in a Club. Now, was the DJ beat-matching naturally or by software? ANSWER: Who cares. It was the best night you’ve ever had.

This “Superstar DJ” world we live in has created too many egos.

again DJJT article hits where i am working on for the past weeks. Thanks so much. Some of my ideas…
Looping a track on the fly like with a CDJ, Midi map the 2 loop in/out set buttons and loop on/off in the clip view box and at any point one can make a loop in a track as small as 1 beat. Or use the looper effect in the return(via send 1) line and mix in the recorded loop in the return track into the main and kill the main track. Multiple cue points are made by copying the clip and making multiple track slices and startpoints. With clip launch and setting the Q-bar to 1/4 it will work very nice and glitch free.
My idea is to use ableton & TR pro and Ableton as master clock and its audio output into Deck 3 audio Through.This way you can use all TR effects and make remixes live by using other beats from ableton and filter out the original beat in Tr. When beat drift occures you can manually adjust with Traktor.
To DJ i will continue on TR and on the fly remixing add Ableton. But for producing tracks or remixes, Ableton is great but as said in the article kind of complex to learn.. Taking a online class is what helped me out with excelent results. I don’t know if it is allowed to name this site that provided the course…so i will leave it up to Ean if that is OK….But It is sure worth it if any one wants to get the best out of ableton..

[quote comment=”38226″]Incidentally, can we get the CSS fixed for the comments?

It needs something like:
ol.commentlist li p { margin-bottom: 12px; }

That will fix the ugly white-space issues :)[/quote]

If your willing to help clean it up- i would be happy to get the help 🙂 email me from the about page..

I’d definitely agree that the biggest issue with Ableton is poor sample browsing. This applies to DJs, but it’s also a big problem as an Ableton producer. I end up using a lot of Native Instruments VSTs simply because they have excellent preset browsers.

There are other commonly-cited issues (lack of dual waveforms, inferior looping controls, lack of cue points) with Ableton, but most of them are fixable or surprisingly unproblematic. The browser limitations are a big deal.

I’d like to see NI-style tag-based libraries (with a little quicklookup database) for samples in Ableton. I’d also like to see a modal change (from normal mode to browse mode) available with good MIDI-mapping capabilities. If done correctly this could be useful in both the studio and during performance. Traktor, Maschine and Kore would be the obvious places to look for inspiration.

[quote comment=”38204″]why doesn’t Traktor or Serato have a time warping feature?[/quote]

They’re not half as good as Live’s. When I rip vinyl, I rip straight into Live and warp and process to I get it how I want it to sound. This is mainly what I use Live for. Was just seeing if you could use this feature like a batch converter instead of song for song. That’s all.

@Will Marshall, Well put in everything that you’ve said

My biggest complaint about ableton is the file browsing. If someone would code a better looking and better functioning way to drop in songs/loops/samples then ableton would be perfect. I still use both traktor and ableton, but I would drop traktor if ableton had a few more tweaks to functionality

using Live on its own wouldn’t work well with me spinning hip-hop/top40s stuff, but when I do play my house sets, I have been messing around with it and it works!

But like everyone has said, it does require time to prepare all your tracks. With the Bridge, I plan on incorporating it with Serato eventually…

Really liked this article, strong quality and even had some “under the hood” tips I’ve been wanting to learn. Strong writing and also a thank you for sticking around for Q&A and more observations. My turn!

Guilty. That’s how I feel about calling myself a ‘DJ’ – so many of my friends are traditional deck and mixer artists, but they’ve been really encouraging of my different approach. I can first-hand say that Ableton’s performace and portability are quite amazing, especially with the idea of “queue up and fire away” or adding on the fly. My stripped down kit – a netbook, little single in/out ASIO USB dongle, and a nanoKontrol – are ultra portable, pretty potent and I can cue and EQ and add some various phaser/distortion effects as well. Point being, a lot of the time I don’t beatmatch, but definitely cue songs in and out and crop them and toss in some samples…or even more.

Being able to run a line-in guitar track is ultra-simple with Ableton, and with an APC40 and enough horsepower, also a MIDI keyboard tied to a Live instrument or VST, and you can start to imagine the performance rig I’m developing (though probably not the first of its kind). Down the line I’d love to include a Vestax or similar controller and use Serato + Bridge or Max + Ms Pinky or VST Deckadance…so many great options. I know I’m barely getting past beginner stage and focused a bit much on the hardware/software, but Ableton really has changed my perspective on what it means to DJ, to be a performer and a producer. It’s a lot of fun to play a ripping solo over Prodigy’s Invaders Must Die then cut out the axe and mix up some effects.

So much homework left to do…off to go practice beat matching, but still happy I can read a WAV and cue the next track for a nice fade-in without a monitor feed to perform hour+ sets on the netbook without any trouble. Hope more can learn about how great the software is for modern times.

I have Live6, don’t use it much. My question is, is there a way to mass warp my files in Live then send them to my folders in Traktor? Before anyone says “just use Ableton for everything”, I have several DAW’s and using Live isn’t a problem. For me Abletons’ greatest strength, WARPING, fixes Traktors’ greatest weakness, WARPING. Is there a way to do my library in “one shot”? Just asking the Ableton Pros.

This is one of the best articles i’ve read about Ableton, thanks a lot Chad, im really a total noob when it comes to Ableton and always wanted a quick overview of what you can do/not do with Ableton, this has been like a mystery for me for a long time.

Like you said it involves some pre-work and its not just launch and play, in my personal opinion this application seems to be oriented mostly for the electronic scene, i haven’t seen too much action of this on other genres and for DJs like me that spin 8-10 different genres wouldn’t be very helpful.

[quote comment=”38194″][quote comment=”38191″]Hi guys,

Will Marshall here – some of you probably know me 😉
.[/quote]

Nope… Intro..?[/quote]

Not all of you 😉

I do a bunch of Ableton-related DJ tools

, hang out on ALDJ, etc.

[quote comment=”38191″]Hi guys,

Will Marshall here – some of you probably know me 😉
.[/quote]

Nope… Intro..?

[quote post=”8246″]I guess it depends on your computer but on my Macbook Pro (4 yrs old I think) they sync up ok in that direction. It does take some setting up — often I have to restart Traktor a couple times to get it to work — but once they’re synced they stay synced pretty well. Though as someone else mentioned if you change the tempo in traktor there’s a lag before Ableton catches up, so you ought not be mixing both progs and changing tempo at the same time.
[/quote]

Weird I guess, I’m on a macbook too and if I use Traktor as the master Ableton fluctuates wildly +-5bpms which is just way too far off. I tried it every way possible, even using “Midiclock” which had the same crazy fluctuating tempo effect to both applications!

manually syncing both apps actually works a treat with clock nudge and is probably most accurate overall, but has “yet more” buttons to push or wheels to spin and displays to watch for what really should be a very very simple task ?

[quote comment=”38167″]The fluctuating Clock sync in Traktor is a bit of a pain, but works 99% accurate (within .5bpm up and down) if Ableton is the master, setting Traktor as the master clock is complete FAIL. [/quote]
I actually haven’t found this to be true — I guess it depends on your computer but on my Macbook Pro (4 yrs old I think) they sync up ok in that direction. It does take some setting up — often I have to restart Traktor a couple times to get it to work — but once they’re synced they stay synced pretty well. Though as someone else mentioned if you change the tempo in traktor there’s a lag before Ableton catches up, so you ought not be mixing both progs and changing tempo at the same time. Other than that though i’s pretty fun, and it seems to me to have all the advantages of the “bridge” in serato. (It also helps if you have an APC for firing off the clips, if you’re doing this with the mouse it’s gonna be no fun at all, haha).

@Chad – big ups on Chris + Cosey, TG, and Coil! Always get a smile when I see someone on these sites as old as I am :-O

[quote comment=”38138″]Good read, I’ve been messing with both Ableton and Traktor a lot and can’t decide which one I really want to sink my teeth into still. They’re both so fun.[/quote]

use both look up smart mixing on djtt

Ableton is for creatives….not for “DJ’s” in a traditional sense. Once again I see bashing of a software because you cant turn it on and have everything made for you. Thats the difference between a “dj” and a artist. Ableton is a powerful tool if you can think outside the box in how you build your live sets with routing and effects. But if your the “DJ” thats twists knobs on the mixer on a track with now audio playing to make it look like your making the build up in the track stick with traktor..if you want to really be creative and not a Ean Golden clone asking for templates and mapping…..try the demo of Ableton……if you have any talent you can make some sick shit!

no beatmatching needed should never be a perk of why you should Use
—–DJ—–Software.

theres a difference between doing complex things during which U dont want to beatmatch so U use SYNC or master tempo etc… and choosing a piece of software cause you cant beatmatch….

If U cant beatmatch….sigh…its not hard….. you should be working on beatmatching and have no business opening ableton.

[quote comment=”38165″]Could be intresting to have a list of Major artist djing with Ableton.

Anyone?[/quote]

Daft Punk…

Daft Punk is using 4 Minimoog Voyagers in that picture.

Even if you were using an old Cubase running in an Atari computer, it would still sound analog. This is the real thing.

Forget about Live, Traktor, Serato, or even ProTools, that’s just digital crap.

I really need to get around to writing about how I use Ableton, because a lot of the complaints people use are just not valid once you get into the software.

A couple responses:
[quote comment=”38141″]yeah the fact that it takes so much preparation beforehand to use it for something as simple as djing is the biggest turn-off to me for using it as a dj tool.

if the software included a “deck instrument” which had intuitive functions for cue points, looping, track browsing etc. i think i would definitely be more inclined to jump ship from traktor.[/quote]

It does take a lot of preparation, but so does everything else digital. File management is the biggest part of it, though warping and splitting things into clips/loops does take time. The good news is that it’s more precise than Traktor or SSL, that you only ever have to do it once per track, and that it gets a lot easier to do after you do more than a handful of tracks.

[quote comment=”38162″]I don’t understand why Traktor cannot be a VST plug in….. NI are after all makers of some of the best VST makers….
Its all down to money and control….[/quote]

Because that would be completely pointless, just like having a DJ deck instrument, as commented above. I’m not saying your ideas are dumb, and i’m not saying that either of you are dumb. You just haven’t actually gotten into what Ableton does, what its limitations are, and–more importantly–what it adds to a DJ set. Forcing a “deck” into that system takes away almost everything it adds (except good AU and VST support, flexible routing, the built-in effects, etc.) and doesn’t add anything that isn’t just a part of Traktor, SSL, or Itch. Here’s the rub. Most of the routing options only matter if you’re doing something complicated within Ableton. It takes a good bit of work to arbitrarily effect the audio using a wet/dry knob instead of send/receive channels (from the standpoint of your controller). It took me a while to figure out how to do it completely reliably. That alone means that Ableton might not be as good of a tool for people looking to just DJ the way they always have. In addition, you’d lose its warping, clip controls, looping…everything.

If that’s what you want, the solution is for Traktor (Serato probably isn’t going to do it anytime soon) to become a full-featured VST and AU host. There’s no reason to use it as VST or even to re-wire it into Live just to use Live’s effects. Live’s built-in effects are pretty freaking good, but there’s better stuff available.

@ a few people, there’s no reason to pre-program sets in Live any more than there is to go to a gig with a set list. You don’t have to do it. The pictures you’ve seen with hundreds of clips pre-loaded are one of three types of people. One, they’re not DJs; they’re live acts who have a pre-prepared set list anyway, just the same way a band would: think Deadmau5, Orbital, or Daft Punk (regardless of what software they’re actually using). Two, they’re EDM producers who don’t want to learn to DJ at all and just want to play their own tracks in a live environment and do more than just load up an iTunes playlist. No offense to him, his stuff’s awesome, but Felix Cartal comes to mind. Or, three, they’re DJs who have seen one of the two previous groups and decided to use the same workflow without really getting to know Ableton. Maybe someone from one of the first two groups taught them to use it and they either didn’t bother or didn’t know enough to figure out how to do anything different…which is fine. But, there are a lot of people who levy this workflow as a complaint against Live…which is just not valid.

I have NEVER performed live with Live with clips pre-loaded except for dummy clips that control effects, and I’ve given even that up after Macro banks were added, since I can now control all of the effects I want with 4-knobs per “Effects Device,” which I use 2 of. I’ve done pre-planned sets for mix CDs and competitions, but I do them in arrangement view, still without pre-loaded clips.

I tried doing it the other way once, and it was one of about 3 times I’ve ever had Live crash on my Mac. (The other two were from me doing something stupid like trying to run Live while compiling software).

I really just need to submit an article…I’ll get around to that after this round of tests at uni.

DOESNT THE BRIDGE DO AWAY WITH ALL THE CONS EXCEPT FOR TIME WARPING TRACKS???

[quote comment=”38155″]

Cue points can be made by chopping up the track into multiple clips with different start points each – it’s not a pretty solution, but if you have an APC40, Novation Launchpad, or another monome-style device that allows you to fire off multiple clips in quick succession it could work for you.

In terms of prep, once you’ve mastered the art of warping tracks it’s pretty easy to warp a new song in a minute or so – just enough time to drop one into your set, warp it, cue it to make sure it’s tight, and transition into it. This is easier with electronic tracks of course, but even with irregular tracks that need a handful of warp markers you can do it – so although spontaneity is an issue, you’re not at all chained to a prescribed tracklist if you’re nimble enough. (This is also Jason J’s comment, but as he notes, that lack of spontaneity happens when you start with Ableton – it doesn’t have to persist!)[/quote]

I agree with all of this. The way I use Live for cue points is to do just what you mentioned and it works great with my APC 40. It’s a pain in the ass to start, but once you get the hang of it it takes like 5 mins to fully warp, chop, and prep a song and you’re good to go. So worth it imo as well. Warping in Live 8 is super easy and accurate as well, so I’m not sure why people complain about this one.

But as the article says if you don’t like the pre-planning aspect of Live don’t even bother. I actually “lol-ed” when i saw the screen shots of the 3 platforms because it reminded me of when I first opened Live and when “where the hell is everything? This is just a blank screen…” It took a lot of reading and set up on my part just to get off the ground, but now i’ve got a system worked out that does exactly what i want it to do, and for that I think it’s worth the time investment.

I don’t understand why Traktor cannot be a VST plug in….. NI are after all makers of some of the best VST makers….
Its all down to money and control….

Nice read. One of the most informative articles I read in awhile.

I was a long supporter of live, but recently switched over to traktor. I would say ableton is perfect if you want to go on the far end of creativity. It can go head and shoulders above standard 2 or 4 deck mixing and if you take the time you can do some amazing things with it. However for me that can sometimes lead to what your doing being self indulgent rather than built for dancefloors. For my own personal style traktor is much more dancelfoor friendly, in my opinion in the sense it doesnt allow me to over complicate things too much!

…

For mash-up and remix is the best tool but the partnerships are getting it a bit innestable for “Live” performance.

paradox.

…

All I have to say is I once owned a set of turntables, a mixer, but no microphone. I traded in that gear for a controller or controllers and migrated into Ableton.
I do own a VCI100 which I use to perform as well mix on the fly at home (I use dekadance) when I want to “mix on the fly” while I work with tracks before I import them into my Ableton live set.

Note I am turning in my VCI (not getting rid of) for an APC 40 to expand the ability of my live sets.

Another aspect of Live sets that should be noted is when working in the beginnings of the program a sense of “pre-planning” is evident.

However when you dig in and build your material, mash up and such the true power of the program really shows through when the realization that using Ableton as a traditional DJ program shines through.
Noted in the article is this, live mash up, personal re-edits, live re-edits etc…

Great article, some excellent points here, but I have to argue with the following:

[quote post=”8246″]Say you want to mix a 70s funk track (recorded with a live drummer whose sense of timing is a little loose) with a recent electronic track with a steady, computer-generated beat. Mixing between these two tracks on CDJs or turntables would be a nightmare, as the funk drummer’s beat isn’t constant and the mix would require constant manual intervention. With Live’s warp markers, you can snap the funk track into perfect timing before playing it, creating a silky-smooth mix between different styles.[/quote]
Please don’t do this! The last thing you want when DJing is for a raw funk track to sound “silky smooth.” Funk needs to be sloppy, messy, and dangerous…. tempo changes are all part of that fun. And mixing between such tracks is not difficult at all on traditional equipment (vinyl and CD), but yes manual intervention is required, and no you don’t want to mix 2 songs for minutes at a time. Ableton is a great tool if you want to take a chorus of a funk track and loop it into a house track for several minutes or something like that but at that point you’re really going beyond simple DJing. But warping tracks just to force them into a steady BPM so you can mix them together in my opinion is the wrong way to go — you’re going to suck the life out of them. Better to find a loop where the drummer is tight and use that to switch songs, or just beatmatch by ear and move into the next song smoothly.

Another drawback to DJing with Ableton is spontaneity — you really need every track prepped ahead of time, and keep in mind that Ableton needs to convert each mp3 into a wav file to actually work with it. So forget about bringing 2000 songs to a gig or tossing in some random track that you thought of at the last minute.

Ableton is an incredibly powerful tool, and you can do some amazing things with it. It’s not my personal choice for DJing but if you have all your songs prepped beforehand it’s definitely workable. But it really shines if you are going beyond mixing songs together — actually working with multiple clips and loops, weaving them together on the fly. Check out the kinds of things Evolution Control Committee does with it for example — lots and lots of easily recognizable loops used to create endless mashups that are harmonically matched; every set is different even though the same elements are used together. That kind of work takes a LOT of preparation though since every loop has to be warped and categorized to make that work well. For just playing tracks for people to dance to, all that work is overkill, and if you’re wanting to play old tracks with live drummers, the warping might really crush the feel of some of the tracks.

I like it

To go forward on my Ableton live experience I gotta get it working with traktor, because I don’t see myself giving up on traktor to get the bridge.

I got a the Ableton Demo as son as I heard that it was going to happen. I play around with it and it’s unlimited what you can do. I never felt so powerful and so incompetent at the same time LOl’.

Its a long ways away for coming together. plus theres only so much you can do to prepare everything with a trackpad and that’s it. Ableton needs a hole new gear to be fun to use it to.

instead…
I was thinking Maschine and the S4 in the same computer hooked on clock’, be happy to have that available “working”.

I wouldl follow a tutorial within a tutorial to get something going with the set up I have right now !

I have a VCI 100SE, Midifigther, MacBook Pro, Traktor Pro and AudioFire 2.

Good read, I’ve been messing with both Ableton and Traktor a lot and can’t decide which one I really want to sink my teeth into still. They’re both so fun.