Two projects have surfaced out of the homebrew scene recently, and whilst they come across as very different ideas they each share one thing in common: A love for the 12” platter.
The DIY scene’s like waiting for a bus… or some other equally terrible analogy. The small but vocal group of you that are just crying out for a digital turntable that can fit in perfectly with the rest of your high tech digital setup now have two new concepts to whet your appetites, the Scratch Decoder and the Tonspielzeug. Let’s take a look…
SCRATCH DECODER
First up we have the Scratch Decoder by Norbert Feliu. Check it out: the video’s in Spanish, but you can still see what’s going on (and read a translated version of the proof of concept here).
Essentially an Arduino based receiver that interprets the CDX’s platter movements and uses them for its own benefit – namely to translate them into MIDI and send them to DJ software – this mod has the potential to be used with a huge variety of aging decks that lack the MIDI capabilities to play ball with modern DJ software. More than anything this is a proof of concept, as the somewhat ‘iffy’ performance indicates in the video, but it’s a start. It’s telling that the initial testing’s being done with a CDX, though, as it points fairly hard at the fact that there’s not a mass market 12” motorised MIDI controller to be seen.
TONSPIELZEUG
The other project that’s caught our eye is the Tonspielzeug (translated into English, that’d be Tone Toy).
Conspicuous lack of vinyl indicates that this is indeed a controller, the most interesting feature of which is perhaps the transparent platter with markers visible underneath. What’s it for? Well, turntablists have long been familiar with the concept of TurnTable Notation (TTN). Simply put, it’s a method for transcribing scratching into ‘sheet music’, and it’s a concept that Tonspielzeug creator Alexander Sonnenfeld has taken and run with, creating a colour coded version using traditional musical notation and creating an entire system that revolves around the Tonspielzeug and its capabilities when it comes to adapting tones.
HOW? WHAT? WHERE?
Okay, neither project is available for you to get your longing fingers on yet, or even necessarily at the stage where you’d want to. But maybe they’ve given you that inspiration you were waiting for to actually get out there and go to the mountain yourself. Scratch Decoder is, after all, an Arduino project, and the source code for what’s out so far is kindly shared on the project’s homepage. We always try and help, of course, so here are a few things that come to mind when it comes to learning about the ins and outs of controllers, encoders, and so on: Our guide to DIY control is a good place to get a primer on encoders, and our piece on the pros and cons of pure digital control vs DVS plays with the numbers. Our recent interview with Serato was really insightful when it came to the practicalities of platter control in a digital world, too.
A couple of points that were brought to our attention in the writing of this article made us want to ask some questions.
TurnTable Notation has been around for years, and whilst some turntablists don’t really care for it, some swear by it for learning new techniques and combos. Is a controllerism equivalent of TTN something that you’d find handy?
Finally… this lack of digital turntables. Is it the elephant in the room, or merely indicative of the fact that most of you just don’t see the point? We want to know!
[…] For DJ’s: Review of a couple new digital turntables – APE […]
I just want a usb midi platter… it doesnt have to be an integrated controller just a big motorized platter i can assign to a deck and still use whatever controller I have to mix and scratch. I dont understand why nobody has manufactured one seems like a no brainer!
I just put a timecoded CD into my CDX… same difference
I just put a timecoded CD into my CDX… same difference
I won’t knock those who want a full 12″ platter. I prefer the smaller midi controls now, but I think if we can bring that “classic” thing back with more convenience and no needles to jump around, then it’s a good thing.
Maybe im stupid,but really dont understand idea with CDX-why not just use him with simply cd-timecodes?!)))
Maybe im stupid,but really dont understand idea with CDX-why not just use him with simply cd-timecodes?!)))
Cue points, drifting… control every APP (and hardware) do you want…
You are not stupid, technology is made from unconformists!
The NS7 from Numark almost nailed it perfectly. If they would have made it weigh less, slightly increased the size of the platters, and dropped the price a tad bit, it would have pretty much eliminated the bridge between dvs and controller. I still cant believe how many djs I know that dont understand that as soon as you plug your decks into software “x”, your turntables become controllers. People need to wake up sooner or later. Otherwise, manufactuers arent going to make what WE (djs) want: BETTER GEAR.
don’t forget, there are a ton of DJs (myself included) that need the ability to play real vinyl as well as digital mediums in their performances… so what might be perfect for you wouldn’t satisfy a need for someone else. Instead of advocating for the elimination of traditional turntables instead focus on what you need for your performance / enjoyment.
I’ve bought and returned most controllers (except my midi fighters) just to try them out for a month. Im impartial to NI/Serato software at the end of the day. Currently waiting on twitch, to see if I can rig it up with a “weighty” V7. What i realized is I just want a light controller so I’m not “checking email” in the dark, like the NI/Numark gear without the bulk….and then a proper 10/12″ motorized dumb controller. If there was a MF Pro with full track/deck select functions (subperknobs, et al) and a dumb platter, it toss in my pro audio card, be light weight and stoked. Even better, a mixer section with one big deck, gr8, I’d use some MF’s for my wacko effects needs and let the basic mix/platter controller be the tactical basics workhorse.
I’ve bought and returned most controllers (except my midi fighters) just to try them out for a month. Im impartial to NI/Serato software at the end of the day. Currently waiting on twitch, to see if I can rig it up with a “weighty” V7. What i realized is I just want a light controller so I’m not “checking email” in the dark, like the NI/Numark gear without the bulk….and then a proper 10/12″ motorized dumb controller. If there was a MF Pro with full track/deck select functions (subperknobs, et al) and a dumb platter, it toss in my pro audio card, be light weight and stoked. Even better, a mixer section with one big deck, gr8, I’d use some MF’s for my wacko effects needs and let the basic mix/platter controller be the tactical basics workhorse.
No kiddin, just use CDX w/ DVS and your good…Too bad CDX was legendary for going down after days of usage. Some work, most don’t. I’ve sold many a pair and returned many too. HDX was da bomb…Just store the tracks inside it. Numark really is on the cutting edge of DJ technology though…We just need NS6/7 type of quality on all peices. Metal, robust,etc.
The VCI-300 plus Serato ITCH combination presents a wonderful rotating control surface that sounds and feels completely intuitive, and that’s the opinion of an ex-vinyl mixing DJ (although admittedly I don’t scratch much, many scratch DJs report this is also a good choice).
Why the obsession with arbitrary 12″ turntable platters? Scratching on 12″ platters with slipmats was itself a hack of something never designed to be used for that purpose. I’ve never understood it myself.
For navigating fast around tunes, nudging, setting cues, and the odd scratch, brake or spinback as you introduce or exit a tune, PLUS all the portability advantages of controllerism, I think Vestax & Serato nailed it with the VCI-300/ITCH, and nobody’s bettered it since.
Artform maneuver. Hacking things to make them “our own” is a common in art.
Why to electrify a guitar? With nobody pushing up the limits we didn’t have rock’n roll now.
😉
Artform maneuver. Hacking things to make them “our own” is a common in art.
Why to electrify a guitar? With nobody pushing up the limits we didn’t have rock’n roll now.
😉
Like I said before on one old post Dj techtools should create midi-fighter with big platter to scratch right on the side of the midi-fighter will be one sick and awesome controller on the marketing. Cheers Ean Golden DjChrisWills from Costa Mesa
INSTEAD OF TIME CODED VINYL you could have a 2 part platter – instead of a pressure sensitive one. Basically a platter that spins and carries a disc that has a pin going through the spindle that would send signal.
This would feel NO DIFFERENT than vinyl (hell, the top part could be made of and look like vinyl)
Then companies like Serato could improve more on the software to compete with others, and everybody would win.
Where is the downside? Somebody clue me in!
What you are describing is a CDX or an HDX with a timecode CD. The CDX/HDXs operate by using a “pin” in the center of the platter that is controlled by a keyed faux-vinyl. It is also possible to do away with the timecode, given the CDX midi ability.
What I’m describing would have absolutely no need for timecode – i’m thinking of a true 100% digital solution that instead of a readable time code, has a physical platters (like an S4 or CDJ) but the platters move – but it’s not grabbing the platters themselves that sends the main signal, but rather a second disc riding on top of the platter (just like tt) and this would not be time coded, but physically connected to the inside of the unit. (like a non-rotating normal platter, but it rides on a motorized platter. It doesn’t move itself)
What is the point of having a motorized platter if the control surface is not moving when the platter is active? (Though, I could see it being used like those dots on the side of a 1200 platter; for pitch control)
What is the point of having a motorized platter if the control surface is not moving when the platter is active? (Though, I could see it being used like those dots on the side of a 1200 platter; for pitch control)
Downsides =
1. No ability to play real vinyl in a performance… and/or need to have an additional turntable to sample from real vinyl in the studio.
2. Lack of pitch / scratch accuracy since such a device would presumably use MIDI
EKS OTUS did anybody ever buy one and map it? I was always interested in getting a pair but was way out my price range. good controllers from what i have seen.
Yes OTUS is perfect for me too: A good DUAL, sensitive touch platter, pads and extra rotary controls, fully and easily configurable… but also too pricey. I guess EKS would sell loads if it were around US$ 300-400.
Yes OTUS is perfect for me too: A good DUAL, sensitive touch platter, pads and extra rotary controls, fully and easily configurable… but also too pricey. I guess EKS would sell loads if it were around US$ 300-400.
This is a great Idea..you can use your old gear…no need to buy cheap expensive controllers that will do the same thing.
Not to much with a controller but the numark x2 seems to be shadowed buy the cdx. I still use an x2 from time to time. It’s a record player and cdj. You actually have a record on the platter when you scratch a cd. It’s uses a pretty Effing smart design for the platter. And people that hate on it are naysayers. It’s really nice. Personally I want to see a new one of those.
If there was an s4 esque (4 channel mixer) controller with ns7 platters, that would be ideal.
Correct bigger platters.
Someone should invent a digital platter that you could insert inside the chassis of the 1200…eliminating the need for tonearm and needle. i think it would be the perfect solution
http://youtu.be/G17o_HuQvo4
http://youtu.be/G17o_HuQvo4
Maybe this?
http://youtu.be/G17o_HuQvo4
Maybe this?
DVS isn’t that the same thing? or cdj’s in vinyl mode. I read uptop that it’s messing with the all the wires is an issue (not really for me) but if that is the case ttm57sl or the pioneer traktor equivalent mixers with built in soundcards do the same. I personally think if you want big platters with the feel of a record, you go DVS. if you want something that spins and is smaller… NS7.
Either of these products get polished up and ready to sell I will bet they flop. and flop hard.
I really love the CDX and was very sad when it was discontinued. The 12″ platter has such a great feel for scratching and enough room to use faderless techniques such as hydroplanes. I think that the 12″ platter would make more scratchers/turntablists start using controllers. It has to do with feel and comfort. If you have a wealth of techniques under your belt using vinyl, controllers are a very different animal. I completely understand why someone who has spent years or decades honing their craft on 1200s would not want to switch to something with a completely different feel. It’s like having to learn a new instrument if you greatly depend on platter manipulation for performance.
Although I have been a turntablist for 10 years, I see the great advantages of controllers and that they offer many musical possibilities. They are highly portable, easy to connect, offer fast transitions, looping, sampling, high sound quality, and effects. Even with all of these advantages, I still love the feel of a full-sized platter. Personally, I think the real answer is a turntable with integrated controller features. Updating turntables to meet today’s digital DJ requirements just seems like a more viable option than a controller with 12″ platters. Since vinyl and digital files are the preferred DJ mediums, why not integrate the two?
+1… good that there are DJs on this forum who understand the versatility of the turntable.. too many on this forum / blog have never even played on a turntable, thus really shouldn’t be advocating against a medium they don’t understand.
“Finally… this lack of digital turntables. Is it the elephant in the room, or merely indicative of the fact that most of you just don’t see the point? We want to know!”
Kinda think ya got your answer to that when you posted the question in the article questioning the longevity of DVS systems. That post was met with a defensive back lash from turntable lovers who clearly didn’t grasp the point of the article. Sadly to many of those types seem to have blinkers glued to there heads and don’t relies that once you hook up turntables to software that turntable becomes a controller.
Until the digital percentage of die hard turntable users pull there heads out the sand there will not be a market for a proper digital turntable. Which is a massive shame as the technology to make an accurate moving platter 1210 controller must all ready exist. But sadly the mass’s can’t see that such a controller would save the revolving platter as the best way to grab and move music.
Such a shame Stanton failed with SCS1D, if software companies played nice the SCS1D could of been awesome, but instead we’re stuck with a nest of cables and repeated fluff removal for cleaner DVS signals. Of course I love digital vinyl but it’s far from perfect.
why is it so hard to develop a turntable built to Technics standards, fully digital, midi map capable to any software, and a 12″ rotating platter? It seems the inventors and designers are missing the point. Everyone is trying to reinvent the wheel…. Technics 1200s ARE the PERFECT wheel so why not just build off that. Simply shadow the design, with less weight, and its a midi controller. That has got to be easier that creating everything from scratch like cdjs and such. Personally, i think if anyone could put it off and get it right it would be DJTT.
You can apply scratch decoder into a Technics 1200 or sldz1200 and implement other things in addition to platter movement such pitch, cues and so…
Yo Paul; what about those of us that like both real vinyl AND digital mediums in our live performaces? I think maybe you jump the gun just a bit by stating we have our heads in the sand… on the contrary…. it was those of us who used turntables but wanted digital as well that started this push which as led to the controller movement… let us not forget it.
Until someone builds a controller with a full size platter – it’s all buttons for me. jog wheels can do one….scratching on a full sizer FTW
what about the stanton SCS.1D?? it’s not a 12” platter but is 10” and with the new firmware works infinite better than before, and there are more and more software that support these controllers, like Mixxx, traktor, ableton and Virtual DJ
I read somewhere that if they were to design and produce the SL-1200 today, the tooling and other manufacturing costs would put it in the $2000-$2500 range. Based on the costs of something like the Urei 1620 reissue (which has a similar philosophy: simplicity and industrial-grade reliability) I’d believe it.
Bearing in mind the trend towards more and more disposable technology, the best platter controller that will likely ever be made already exists, and the design was so good it went virtually unchanged for its 30 year lifespan. (Thought experiment: name a single other part of your live setup that you’ll still be using in 7 years, let alone 30. I bet 90% of controllerist gear will be in a closet, or sold for pennies-on-the-dollar on eBay, within 2 years.)
rs
About controllers: the Dicer has the right idea: Tiny, simple,
tightly-integrated with both hardware and software — and most
importantly it doesn’t try to reinvent the wheel with regards to
platters or mixers.
This is a great step in the right direction. I truly believe people want vinyl emulation without the hastle of all the wires. I love my DVS setup, but if I could get the same response with just going from my decks to usb, I would in a heartbeat. As cool as the S4 is, you can’t beat a moving platter.
As some one who owns a CDX, I find it unnecessary to make a separate CDX to midi mod when Traktor already provides a CD timecode. I have had no problems with the CDX in scratch mode with the CD timecode. There is no reason to try that hard, unless (I guess) one does not already own Traktor Scratch Pro with an available DJ quality sound card and CD Timecodes. Meh, I could be wrong though *shrug*.
CDX lacks in a common issue with its CD drive (search a bit please) and Timecode cds lack in drifting cue points (that’s the reason for implement midi cue points instead of using timecode standalone which was developed for turntables).
😉
Good point about the cue points. And, yeah my CDX is currently broken because of that stupid little ribbon cable. Though, if the CDX being used has that problem, it won’t even boot up. So, it wouldn’t matter if this CDX mod or a timecode cd is being used.
That’s one of the points in this project… try to deal with planned obsolescency. The CDX used in the vid has these problem fixed but all the cd internals are useless and could be drop to make it lightweight.
😉
That’s one of the points in this project… try to deal with planned obsolescency. The CDX used in the vid has these problem fixed but all the cd internals are useless and could be drop to make it lightweight.
😉
That’s one of the points in this project… try to deal with planned obsolescency.
The CDX used had these problem and was fixed but the cd drive and so is useless only connected to keep the hack simple…
😉
That’s one of the points in this project… try to deal with planned obsolescency.
The CDX used had these problem and was fixed but the cd drive and so is useless only connected to keep the hack simple…
😉
Good point about the cue points. And, yeah my CDX is currently broken because of that stupid little ribbon cable. Though, if the CDX being used has that problem, it won’t even boot up. So, it wouldn’t matter if this CDX mod or a timecode cd is being used.
1 manufacture is likey to snap this up…
Having used controllers, cdj’s and DVS (not very well though) I’d say that the only way to truly get the feel of vinyl is to use vinyl! So for a digital system to work it would have to use vinyl, and if it uses vinyl, why not just use DVS? I understand that it’s cumbersome, but anything with a 12″ platter will be.
In my opinion (and what I use) DVS accompanied with MIDI controllers, while big, is the best way to go with vinyl. Anything more and I think you’ll lose the feel, and thus the point, of it all.
+1 DVS works much better than MIDI because it is much more accurate… and even if you adopted the HID platform some controllers are using you still lose the ability to play real vinyl records… So if you like the feel and versatility of vinyl then there isn’t any reason to get rid of a standard turntable as both a controller and a player.
Interesting. Is this what is needed to get the hardcore turntablists to become controllerists? I hope not. Scratchers might not like jog wheel feel and size with current controllers and I also don’t think scratching is going away soon. But is this really necessary?
scamo
I actually like scratching on jog wheels.. well the s4 wheels. If I really want the true feel, I’m just going to hook up a real turntable.
shut your lying face, scratching on the S4 is the most uncomfortable crap ever, Even shiftee has to stand sideways to play on them.
Bro.. you’ve got some anger management issues to get hold of… chill out dude!
If you’re using a turntable in a DVS system to control a digital audio file you are a controllerist!… albeit your using 50lbs worth of controller! Scratching isn’t a prerequisite to prefer a real turntable as your weapon of choice…. you might mix real vinyl and digital mediums in your sets as well.