DJTT forums member enorjy shared a tidbit that he noticed while watching the interview section of DJ QBert’s appearance on DJ City’s MikiDz Show last week. QBert starts to talk about a project that Pioneer DJ might or might not be working on – and then stops when he realizes he’s said to much:
Pioneer’s supposed to be having some secret thing coming out – what? […] These companies are starting to get the idea, and there’s a lot of surprises also from our end that I’m not supposed to talk about. Like I wasn’t supposed to say something about the Pioneer. […] They’re doing something – I didn’t say what it exactly was, even though we’re talking about turntables.
Watch the video for yourself below – skip to 55:25 (or watch the whole thing – an awesome performance in the beginning):
Read more discussion on the original forum thread – some interesting speculation in there, including lasers instead of needles.
The header photo is a Pioneer Pro DJ-3500 – their last serious entry into the DJ turntable market.
[…] lautet im DJ-Bereich "alles abdecken". Controller jeder Preisklasse, CD-Player / Mixer sowieso und wie man hört, soll es auch einen "Technics-Nachfolger" geben. Denkbar, den Austausch mit Panasonic gab es schon […]
[…] Although a Pioneer rep – see the video below – was cagey about the product’s details, Pioneer re-entering the turntable market in 2014 could be exciting, especially with some of the blows that turntables have taken in recent years. It shouldn’t come as too much of a surprise, however, DJ Qbert spilt some of the beans in an interview earlier this year. […]
[…] put it through the paces. In case you didn’t hear what he said, peep this as posted in DJTechTools last […]
[…] few weeks ago Q-Bert let it slip that he had seen some secret new turntable project from Pioneer at NAMM 2014? Well, he wasn’t just kidding around – the photos this morning from Musikmesse […]
[…] been paying close attention to the story of Pioneer’s new vinyl turntable that originally got leaked by QBert right after the NAMM convention in January, and today the details have dropped. The new PLX-1000 is a direct drive analog turntable that’s […]
[…] been paying close attention to the story of Pioneer’s new vinyl turntable that originally got leaked by QBert right after the NAMM convention in January, and today the details have dropped. The new PLX-1000 is a direct drive analog turntable […]
I really hope that Technics still have the footprint copyright, cause then Pioneer have to pay out their ass to use it, as it should be!
Technics the one and only real design for DJS
So now its Rane and Pioneer 1200 SL thats gona rule DMC
B A D
Putting an old “Pioneer Pro DJ” slipmat on an shitty OEM “Pro DJ Series” turntable doesn’t make it a Pioneer. It’s like in the back days when people put Technics slipmats on belt driven Reloops and Numarks to make the people think they’re using Technics turntables.
Pioneer never hit the DJ turntable market and not even now, during Musikmesse 2014 nobody knows if they ever will.
If they make it, they need to one-up the ReLoop model in all aspects: build quality, features, looks, and performance. Price is not too much of a factor in comparison to the ReLoop; just make it close. I do NOT like that logo with “DJ” in prominent letters… Looks cheesy like some low-end SuperOEM model. Matter of fact, leave the words “Pro” and “DJ” off the turntable altogether; we know what this tool is for.
what’s the beat 11mins in?
midi-usb’s-a small processor and transport controls plus inno-fader-,basically the C1 and the QFO had kids and they went steam Punk- a term that sucks,but u get the idea…whats left?-stand-ALONE
You know you have to think about this though….ITS NOT LIKE PIONEER NEVER MADE A TURNTABLE…..They made great audiophile grade tables a million years ago back in the SPEC 4 power amp days….They were able to build some incredible gear back then but now their consumer equipment sucks, it really does. The pro market is whats keeping them alive right now. Since they pulled the plug on he KURO plasma’s and Projectors pioneer has not been the same company on the consumer side. its not their fault either this economy is horrific on AV dealers like my self…. As long as Pioneer keeps TAD Audio and their pro Dj line going they will be fine
THATS WEIRD??? because I bought a set of Audio technica ATPL120’s to check them out a few years ago and they were the EXACT same turn tables in this picture. Now, the ATPL 120 wasn’t bad but it wasn’t a Technics 1200. It was built as good I think, but it had less torque….Now of course the Technics line was still being made then….NOW that technics is defunct the new AudioTechnica models in black are far better and are even better then 1200’s. They use what looks to be basically a 1200 motor only they have a lot more torque, they cant be stopped easily at all and use the same tone arm and gimbal suspension. I got to check them out in person a year ago and if you need turntable’s for what ever reason then those are the ones to buy if you want BRAND NEW or buy a set of 1200’s that have been beat to hell………But ever since going to a controller, me personally would never go back to turntables even though that’s how I learned in the 80’s and loved my 1200’s ( all 3 sets )
Has Q dropped Vestax?, maybe its an RFO then, as QFO has allready been made.
I think Pioneer has aöways been out on the watch fornew things, not saying they are the first to do it as they often claim to build up the hype, even if they know that Numark and Denon may have beaten them to the punch, they stillhang on to the claim, like a knight storming into combat without a king, horse or sword at his side
I guess they have noticed the change in what people buy, that the CDJs are not the hot of the shelf item any more and that controllers are not the next thing, is just artificial respiration and wont make Pioneer Survive the battle among Titans
Dope set though! Good vibes… I love seeing people breaking at a podcast session, haha 😀
Reloop beat them to it! We’ll see what Pioneer comes up with…
er, that header picture is not a Pioneer turntable.. its a pro dj systems dj-3500.. more concerned that the writer doesn’t actually know that Pioneer didn’t enter the DJ turntable market.
i`ll remember a pair of akiyama`s dj2000 i used to own and looks totally like the turntable above
Audio Technica make one very similar to this too.
er, yes that did actually come through Pioneer, I should know as I had the displeasure of trying to sell the P.O.S many moons ago.
Hopefully they learn from their previous mistake (things like lining the base with metal to make it heavier, yes, believe it or not) and make a real Technics rip-off and not some too many features to mention heap of crap.
Okay, I just have to say that pioneer is the kid that follows behind others ideas. Reloop releases a cool turntable with futuristic features and now Pioneer is going to come in behind them with something that has the same functions plus some other feature (Not really sure what more a turntable needs, maybe it will have a moving platter but no tone arm… wait someone else has that right? oh throw in a usb port and lcd screen and its almost that turntable that Numark made with the built in hard drive; minus the hard drive) Anyway Pioneer aren’t Pioneers in anyway… they take other people’s ideas and call them theirs. They made a quality mixer everyone used and then made CDJ’s but they didn’t created the original CD player for DJing, Numark did. Numark at the time though just wasn’t looked at as quality gear. But I knew people who owned Numark CDJ’s before Pioneer even thought about making a CD player. Mainly because Numark’s turntables didn’t compare to Technics (News Flash! there wasn’t a quality turntable comparable to Technics at that time and some still say there isn’t). Vestax was close i guess you could say (but was far from club standard). Even when the CDJ 1000 came out many DJ’s didn’t run out and buy one… mainly because they had invested their money in a vinyl collection. CDJ where even frown on because they showed the BPM on screen and some say made DJing easier. *I remember a DJ being told he couldn’t play because he used CD’s instead of records* It took awhile for CD’s to become acceptable in the DJ world. Then serato and other computer based software/hardware came out and just like CD’s took awhile to catch on with the mainstream. *Rob Swift was the 1st DJ I saw use a laptop running serato live.* Now we have controllers that is designed to control this software and its frown on by some and praised by others. I have used everything from turntables to controllers in my 14 years of playing music. I have seen many hardware devices come and go. Recently watched Pioneer put out a vast controller line. But then design a whole new line of controllers modeled after CDJs. Why didn’t pioneer just skip the toys and release these new controllers 3 years ago? they had all the hardware to do so… Now from my personal view Numark makes the best the controllers available. They are built like tanks and perform flawless. It seems to me Reloop and Numark have the ability to crush Pioneer in the DJ world. Pioneer sees this and is trying to blindside their opponents. Don’t say Pioneers owns the CDJ market either Denon and Reloop have some really nice CDJ’s that perform all the function of Pioneer’s CD players and even have some extras Pioneer CD players don’t, but should have after all these years. I try to get excited about pioneer products but for some reason find myself always looking the other direction. Pioneer can release a turntable if they want but to me there is already other options to choose from in that department. DJ Tech is releasing an affordable turntable that is suppose be decent. Reloop has their line of turntables along with Numark, Vestax and Stanton turntables that many say are just as good as Technics. Oh wait there are still technics available used and reconditioned. So why would any go by a pioneer turntable which is more than likely going to be expensive. This is like Technics making CDJ’s (we all know how well that worked out for them). Pioneer isn’t really any better than anyone else anymore. Spend your money on what you want its your money. I know I spend my mine on gear that I research and compare to everything else available.
You have no idea what you are talking about in that rambling rant.
Here’s a counter-rant. I’d like to weigh in on some of what you said. Hopefully some people that are new will find this information useful, those of you that already know all of this will probably want to skip it, it’s going to be long.
Alright, I’ve never been, and never will be, a brand whore. I use Stanton turntables, and I’ve never had a DJ with Techs be able to tell me (other than the obvious straight/s arm differences, and the plastic body) how it is they feel different than techs… they have the exact same torque, slightly more (but still completely inaudible) wow and flutter, and have never let me down, my friend has had the same Stantons for over 10 years and they’re still going strong as well. The new Reloop 7k and 8k are far better than techs feature wise, same wow and flutter specs, 3 torque modes available, reverse, wider pitch range, etc etc etc… but we have yet to see if they’ll last 20 years the way a set of Techs have been known to, I have a feeling they will prove themselves but it’s an unknown as of yet. Techs are not the best anymore feature wise, haven’t been for a LOOOOONG time, and for scratch artists back in the day Vestax were probably the better choice, but the Techs are built to last, and that matters more than features to a lot of DJs.
On the subject of CDJs, I own a pair of cdj 1000 mk3s, and while Reloop make a decent cdj, it has no beatgrid, and the layout is complicated, and without the lcd ring, scratching and cueing back to the exact spot you were at is a bitch. Denons are nice, they’ve finally released something comparable to a 1000 mk3 or an 850/900, but have no answer in my mind to the 2000 nexus. Gemini make their 2000 clone with the funky built in smartphone looking screen, and that works great, until it doesn’t, due to poorer build quality, and the wheels just don’t feel as nice. No one makes a CDJ as good as pioneer, which is why pioneer can still charge a premium.
As far as Midi controllers, the first few years of controllers in general were littered with plasticy cheap-feeling and strangely laid out offerings from numark, vestax, and behringer, high end controllers didn’t really hit until vestax got their game together and NI threw their hat into the ring. Pioneers first few forays were very respectable, the ddj t1 and s1 were awesome, Numark answered with the 4trak, which was a better controller than either in my mind, and not until the SX did pioneer become supreme in the controller market… the NS7 series is every bit as high quality and is a great piece of kit, but it’s not superior, it’s different. I think it’s great we can choose between cdj style ring lights and moving vinyl platters on a controller now, competition is a good thing. But again… pioneer, while not unrivaled, is still dominant in the market space, they know how to provide quality and they do it well.
You mentioned Technics cdjs failing… that’s in large part because Technics was a relatively small division of Panasonic. Their turntables didn’t really change all that much in the 30something years DJs were using them, so they cost no R&D money and they sold millions of units, they made a killing offering basically the same product for 30 years without investing in upgrading it. When turntables started to decrease in popularity, they made a last-ditch effort to see if they could stay competitive in the DJ market. They failed, and as such decided to close the line, they simply didn’t need it. Their Lumix Camera line gets most of their R&D money these days, and having owned a camera store, let me tell you their cameras are phenomenal. If they wanted to start pouring some of that money into DJ equipment, they’d have no problem getting up to industry standard level quickly, but they make more money with cameras, televisions, and other electronics to really give a shit about the small chunk of consumers that are DJs, it simply doesn’t make dollars or sense.
The way I see it, it comes down to this, broken down by category:
Are Techs still worth the money people ask, used? Yes, they’re proven and last FOREVER, parts are readily available, and there are more mods for them than any other brand.
Are the new big boys (Super OEM, Reloop) worth the cash? Well, yes again, although I’d have more faith in the Reloop 7k/8k than any true straight Super OEM, by changing a lot of the super OEM design they were able to bring down the wow/flutter, compared to the model released under different names by Stanton, Audio Technica, and DJ tech, and that’s a very important stat to have in your favor. Brand doesn’t matter anymore, Super OEMs are made by ONE company, and they have proven to be pretty damn good… Again, Reloop changed enough for me to say they’re not true Super OEM, they’re a notch above, and I’d like to see them become the new standard.
Are pioneer the best? Yes, undeniably.
Are they worth the money? Mostly…
Is anything else worth buying? For beginners, the numarks are decent enough, they’re offered at a price that makes sense, and they take a hell of a beating. If you just want to play in your bedroom, the gemini 700s are fantastic, and allow you to get used to the pioneer layout for practically nothing; I wouldn’t throw a party with them though, they WILL break on you.
Denon? Personal preference on that one, they’re built well and fully featured, but pioneer will give most people more mileage for their money.
Pioneer or Numark? They’re both top dog, either will last you a long time and have everything you need, provided you get their flagship models. Obviously if you’re using Traktor the S4 is still a fantastic choice as well, these are the 3 you want.
Everyone else? Vestax will always have their place, never liked their jogwheels myself, but the vci-400 is undeniably a BEAST… I can’t honestly recommend any other brands. Reloop have some interesting controllers, but for just a little more you can get something much better.
That’s my rant over, I needed to get that out, I’m sick of people saying “this brand sucks, that brand sucks, and not explaining why. I wanted to put together a list of brands and information about them for people who don’t really know.
Panasonic could have saved the SLDZ 1200 if they wanted, and to be honest after the last update, they not so bad as people say.
Pioneer and Numark?
Well i put my money on Numark as they invent, just like Denon did, Pioneer are just a big brand that copy ideas just like Reloop and Behringer
@ Stephen Snow
You have not got the faintest idea what you are talking about regarding Pioneer, if you did you would have taken a different path in your thiking-
Even if they had tried, it had no waveform of any sort, was slow, and bigger than a cd player needs to be… if you want the look and feel of vinyl but need access to digital files, use DVS.
Also, Actually I own a lot of pioneer gear, and use mine and others regularly… fairly certain I know what I’m talking about, who makes a better CDJ? No one. Better controllers? Perhaps Numark, perhaps not… and better mixers? Well, rane is always pretty impressive, A&H, they are probably both better, but I’m not sure why you’d say I have no idea what I’m talking about when it comes to pioneer..
@ Stephen Snow I’m also fairly certain that you know what you’re talking about. Your post above demonstrates that you have an informed perspective and well-reasoned opinions. FWIW, I concur with you on Pioneer being the unquestionable leader of high-quality hardware for digital DJ’ing. I lack expertise with regard to vinyl and other analog gear—but I know my Pioneer gear inside and out. There’s no question that it’s the best available—and mostly really awesome.
My gripe with Pioneer—and it’s actually a HUGE gripe—is rekordbox. I’ve had it (and 2000’s, now 2000nxs) since day 1—and all I’ve ever wanted to do with it is assign the beatgrid to my tracks, and pass them along to my SD cards or USB drives. That’s all. For at least 4 years, it was a terrrible, horrible, embarassing nightmare of an application—and I cannot understand how or why Pioneer has failed to address that.
If they’d have taken rekordbox seriously, Traktor and Serato might not even exist today, because Pioneer would be so dominant from leveraging their hardware with a good DJ app. Here we are, in 2014—5 years after rekordbox 1.0—and it’s still a single-threaded, bug-ridden, ported (on the Mac) DJ application that’s not anywhere close to ready for prime time.
I mention this because, ironically, it shows how great Pioneer’s hardware truly is. (i.e., It’s SO good, that the damage to their brand which should have taken place—and which would have put any other player out of business by now—has been astoundingly minimal). It just shows how correct you are in asserting that Pioneer is the unquestionable leader in the hardware area. If they weren’t, they’d be out of the DJ game entirely, because their software is an embarrassment to humanity.
Anyway… I digress. It’s stable enough where I can reliably get my music to my decks without hassle or disaster (I haven’t upgraded it since I reached that stage, and probably won’t ever… haha!). In the meantime, Pioneer’s hardware is dope… and their engineers continue to innovate at a really impressive pace. (Now, if only I could convince them to make some rotary knobs for my DJM-2000!
Haha they better make one now!
Yeah and its gona cost you $3000 a piece, so are you up for it?
I mean its an industry first, Pioneer is building the first Vinyl Record Player EVER!
Noone has done this before, “Sarcasm”
It would totally make sense for Pioneer to step into the Vinyl market given their seemingly great relationship with Serato at the moment, and since they’ve even run out of golden technics for the DMC champs. And pioneer totally loves to be the flagship/standard of the industry in everything they do…
I’m used to seeing videos of Q just scratching. This video has 2 amazing DJ set with killer tracks I am assuming are mostly from his new album? Anyhow, loved the pace of his DJ sets, it seemed fresh and future yet from the past.
In my opinion the turntable will be a new high tech thing. with an build in interface or an usn slot so u dont need your computer anymore. only plug in usb. choose ure song and then its like timecode. like a cdj. …when i think about it it would be awesome 😀
it would be kind of cool… until you stop for a second and think about it. the price of a quality turntable will run you from about $600-$1000… that’s hardware, no sound processor. now look at the cost of a cdj2000nxs coming in at about the $2000 mark with a wolfson DAC sound processor and all the design bells and whistles that pioneer is great for. add this to the hardware of a turntable (motor with coil and brushes, steel tone arm, alloy body construction… ) because you know pioneer isn’t going to make garbage.
then lets talk about the pricing of a standalone turntable. when you think about it, the price wouldn’t be too awesome.
“wolfson DAC sound processor and all the design bells and whistles”
All that and still sound like SHIT, so what do they come up with next?
You must be out of your mind. For my money, the 24-bit DAC in the recent generations of CDJ’s is truly top-notch—and certainly no gimmick. In fact, the sound quality of those decks is easily their most overlooked feature, as far as I’m concerned. Either way, that 24-bit Wolfson DAC sounds a heck of a lot cleaner to my ears than a laptop, a Serato box and Technics ever has.
I couldn’t (and won’t) make that same claim in relation to straight vinyl w/ Technics-1200s, but neither will I let the “analog purism” position continue to go unchallenged. Here in 2014, the achievable quality of an all-digital audio setup is analogous to the achievable quality of an all-digital photo workflow. Which is to say—finally, and truly, reaching parity with the quality of the analog technology which preceded it. The “film always looks better” and the “vinyl always sounds better” arguments are no longer entirely valid. They’ve been immensely productive arguments—especially as they’ve caused the developers of digital technology to take note of the important nuances and subtleties of the analog era—but this argument will have run its course soon, I think.
In any case, as far as Pioneer is concerned—perhaps you need to refresh your perspective on their sound quality. I think their engineers may have performed some actual magic while developing the CDJ-2000nexus. I don’t know what they did, but the quality of the pitch/warp algorithm went from frustrating-flakes to rich buttery goodness between the 2000 and the 2000nxs. The nexus decks are literally at least 5x better than any CDJs before them—and also clearly superior to Ableton’s “pro” warping mode now.
On all past CDJs, if you activated Master Tempo (locking in the native pitch) and slowed your track’s tempo down… right at about -3%, the sound would begin to fall apart—sounding “crunchier” and increasingly digital the farther you went. e.g., Whenever I’ve wanted to use a track in a (recorded) mix at more than +/- 3-4% (while maintaining it’s native key), I’d make sure to warp it in Ableton first, because the “digital crunch” from doing it on the CDJs was never suitable to my ear (for use in a recording).
The CDJ-2000nexus decks, however, are like magic at my fingertips. Whereas warping something in Ableton used to give me a little more leeway than on a CDJ, I wouldn’t DREAM of using Ableton for that purpose now. The 2000-nexus decks are SO good. On average, I’d say that you can realistically slow a track down 12-16% (using Master Tempo) before you begin to perceive a loss in quality. It’s true that this is only one aspect of a DJ’s potential needs, but it’s a big deal to me—and I don’t buy your statement that Pioneer’s stuff sounds like “SHIT”—at all.
As I said—maybe it’s time for you to reacquaint yourself with their hardware. Cheers.
Pioneers soundquality is shit compared to other brands that care about sound!
Let me put it this way, younger generations dont even know what a vinyl record player is, some even think its the new cd player of the decade, hahaha, truth be told.
But Ponder this, if Pioneer is contemplating a VRP, then they need to make one with spinning platter, and that has always been a no no for Pioneer reps
Maybe a digital scratchtable, but not a VRP im certain of it
I’d be surprised if pioneer hadn’t asked him to bring this up as a teaser.
Exactly, They probably want to flesh out what people say in forums and on the internet to either see if its worth the R&D and marketing expense or what features people do or don’t want added to make it a hit with the vinyl crowd…Also, just an observation..Serato and Pioneer have been pretty close lately…I’m sure a turntable will be Serato DJ hardware (that could be used with Traktor Scratch as well with mapping) but I’m wondering if Pioneer and Serato don’t make a more permanent relationship eventually to combat NI..
If they do, it really, and i mean really need to be of good quality and price, or people will not buy it, why buy a VDJ for $2000 when you can have the real thing for $300 used.
the pioneer turntable has been photographed already, it looks like a standard SUPER OEM turntable, the thing i don’t like about these turntables is the tonearm wich isn’t as accurate as a 1200. I wish Pioneer would come up with something simular as the 1200 in terms of build quality but with a wider pitch range. Then i would finally sell my Technics but that ain’t gonna happen any time soon.
Stanton Str8-150s. Constantly overlooked but better than technics
Not better than Technics, they won’t last 30+ years. The inner parts of the STR-8 150s are cheaper compared to the 1200.
Check these vinyls out 😉
LOL.. I just suggested lasers to be a dick. It would never happen as records warp. To use lasers you would have to make records from steel or alloy to ensure they are flat. Essentially to use real vinyl you would need to measure the distance between the record and the surface of the vinyl then the distance between the surface of the vinyl to the groove. It will never happen commercially as $15,000 seems like a fair price for all that would be required.
If you want dj players with lasers they already exist in cd players
Yes it’s a true story. Around April i hear made at Hanpin.
No sync??? Then it is not from pioneer. hehehehe
There have been some laser light based transcription turntables and some hi-fi ones — very expensive. The process doesn’t involve AD conversion either.
Anyway, I think if they do make a TT it will use a regular needle but they will really refine the controller button concept on it.
In my opinion Pioneer owns the auxiliary controller and the effector market. I wouldn’t even consider anybody else’s stuff for a booth install. But my gut tells me we haven’t seen the end of the mighty Technics where TTs are concerned.
I HOPE we haven’t heard the last of Technics.
7″ turntables, cmon pioneer I need em, and NI I will need 7″ vinyl to go with it in lots of colours. make it happen!
Imagine a turntable with a laser needle, digital readout and nexus firmware. (just speculating here)
While your speculative proposal is cool, it utterly defeats the purpose of a turntable. I went digital after I tried/bought traktor. It’s pointless. The appeal of vinyl is the warmth in the sub bass whether people know it or not. that’s what people are really talking about when they say vinyl is better. Any digital stage cancels that warmth and renders vinyl an inferior format.
“Any digital stage cancels that warmth and renders vinyl an inferior format.” This statement seems dubious to me. Where is it written in stone that digital signal processing is incapable of rendering the warmth of a given analog frequency? If you’d said, “currently, no digital processing has succeeded at translating that warmth…” I might not object. But you’re suggesting (or so it seems) that digital processing inherently necessitates a cancellation of this certain frequency.
1. Is that what you’re suggesting?
2. Is that really true (that digital signal can’t ever overcome this issue)?
now that everyone’s making digitally controlled analouge synths, maybe they’ll make a digitally controlled analouge turntable 😛
allready been made!
Hopefully they do a better job than their first attempt!
Back when I was 18, I saved up my dollars and purchased this Pioneer “starter pack” boxed set. It had turntables that looked identical to Technics, a basic 2ch mixer and a set of headphones. The guy in the store (a giant electronics store, not a dedicated DJ shop…support your local DJ store kids!) told me they were “rebadged” Technics, at a fraction of the price. 10 secs play with them and it was obvious that this wasn’t the case. They had almost no torque, so mixing was a bit of a challenge; but I pushed through, wioth the mindset that I was learning and that if I could mix on these then mixing on Techs would be a breeze. Half a week later they started to play up. The pitch would change rapidly by itself and you could hear insane wow and flutter when melodies were playing. The shop convinced me to try another pair…I wasn’t keen but thought I’ll try one more set…same thing happened about 5 days later. Returned them, got my refund and vowed never to stray away from industry standard gear again!
Actually I’ve just realised the beast I’m talking about is the photo up top!
that tune around 30-32 minutes is pretty awesome… 😀
Nothing like physically controlling the medium directly 🙂