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Denon DJ: SC5000, VL12 Turntable, X1800 Mixer, Engine Prime

Last week the first details emerged of Denon DJ’s NAMM announcements, and now the press releases are out. Today, Denon DJ is announcing a four-channel mixer, the X1800, the SC5000 Prime media player, and the VL12 direct drive turntable.

X1800 Prime: Four Channel Mixer

Denon DJ X1800 Prime Mixer

 

As many speculated after the SC5000 leak, Denon DJ is launching a new four-channel mixer as a part of their new Prime line of gear. The mixer has Sweep FX (similar to Color FX on Pioneer mixers) and BPM FX units, a 24-bit/96kHz audio card, and the ability to connect to players via Engine Connect (sending beat grids and timing data for synchronized effects).

A nice touch is that the Filters are completely separate from the Sweep FX – meaning you don’t have to choose one or the other as on Pioneer DJM mixers.

The mixer is clearly set out to compete directly with the DJM-900NXs2, with a lot of the same functionality. Here’s the full feature set:

  • 4-Channel Digital Mixer with (4) phono/line switchable channels
  • BPM FX section with frequency controlled ‘Band-Isolation’
  • Dual USB audio connections for software and audio devices.
  • Dedicated Sweep and BPM FX Knobs — high-quality effects for each channel with a single knob turn
  • Expressive EQ – choose Classic or Isolation modes and an Adjustable Filter Resonance Control
  • Engine Connect’ protocol for beatgrid locked FX
  • Expressive Denon DJ ‘Flex-Fader’, Crossfader
  • Connect MIDI based effects and instruments
  • 24-bit/96kHz digital output for uncompromised audio quality
  • Crisp OLED screen for precise menu based adjustments
  • (4) Digital inputs for high-resolution audio mixing
  • LAN Hub for up to four players or accessories
  • Rugged metal construction

 

SC5000 Prime Media Player

Denon DJ SC5000 Media Player Prime Angle Shot

This is the media player that first leaked last Thursday from Denon DJ, and for anyone who wants a a company to seriously try to compete with Pioneer DJ, this is the best bet. The price point comes in at $300 less than a top-of-line CDJ-2000NXS2. Amazingly, they also have dual layers – meaning that you can be playing back two tracks from one of these at the same time. There’s a pair of RCAs on the back of the unit – so each layer has its own output:

S5000 dual layer aoutput

Beyond the full feature set (below), there was last-minute addition to the press release: Serato and Traktor support are planned to be on the near-term roadmap for the product.

  • 7-inch HD display with multi-touch gestures
  • 24-bit/96kHz digital audio outputs
  • Dual-layer playback with individual audio outputs
  • Plays uncompressed audio formats (FLAC, ALAC, WAV)
  • 8 multifunction trigger pads for Cues, Loops, Slices and Rolls
  • 8-inch rugged metal jog wheel with HD central display
  • Customizable RGB color around the jog wheel
  • (3) USB and (1) SD input for music playback
  • LAN output to link to up to four players

VL12 Prime Turntable

V12 Prime Turntable

  • Product: VL12 Prime Direct Drive Turntable
  • Price: $899
  • Availability: Q1 2017

Denon is also launching a new direct-drive turntable, originally tooled (not just another Super OEM?) and with all metal construction, isolation feet, and adjustable pitch. The VL12 also claims to have the highest torque in the industry, and is ringed with RGB lighting around the entire platter for a unique look and feel. Here’s the full feature list:

  • Isolation feet eliminate unwanted vibration and feedback
  • Highest-in-industry 5kgf/cm torque on “High” setting
  • Innovative ‘easy grip/brake’ chamfered platter redefines tactile DJ touch
  • Isolated motor design, for optimal signal-to-noise ratio
  • S-shaped tone arm for accurate tracking
  • Reinterpreted tone arm support with dual-function ‘lock or rest’ feature
  • Rugged all-metal tone arm base and high-quality brushed metal controls
  • 2-speed operation 33 1/3rd and 45 RPM (45 RPM adapter included)
  • Adjustable pitch range: ±8%, 16%, 50%
  • Built-in RGB lighting illuminates platter’s edge
  • Color selection and brightness controls

Engine Prime Software

screen-shot-2017-01-09-at-2-07-07-pm

One final note from Denon – they’re also relaunching their Engine music management software as Engine Prime. This software is the library/analysis system that powers the new media players – and you can import music from Serato or iTunes collections.

Files are analyzed in the software, getting beatgrids and key analysis, and adding tricolor waveforms to the tracks, all of which then is exported to SD/USB devices. Here’s the software’s feature set:

  • Integrate, import and reorganize existing Serato and iTunes databases
  • Advanced and accurate Beatgrid and Musical Key analysis
  • Create Playlists and Crates for the ultimate music library
  • Add custom names to Hot-Cues and Loops for enhanced live workflow
  • Sync ongoing DJ performance data easily back to Engine Prime application
  • Fast and effective on-board Beatgrid and tempo editor
  • Logical and easy to use GUI layout for optimized workflow
  • Manually edit track info and create track ratings
  • Supports Lossless music file formats such as FLAC, ALAC, AIFF and WAV
  • Tri-colored track waveform production for frequency based visual feedback

We’ll have additional reviews and first looks at each of these products as we get our hands on them at NAMM! 

Wondering why there’s so much new gear news on DJTT right now? Companies are rolling out their new products ahead of the NAMM 2017 industry convention. We’re giving DJTT readers the first coverage and insights into what’s coming out:  See all of our NAMM 2017 coverage here. 

  • DJ sureshot

    The new VL12 is sick! If it’s everything Denon says I have a feeling it will become the new industry standard….the best part is it’s not some Hanpin knock off!

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  • ithinkmynameismoose

    “Wondering why there’s so much new gear news on DJTT right now?” No Actually. I’m wondering why there’s so little. Really underwhelming NAMM this year.

  • Arthur Nava

    I used to have 2000NXS decks and sold them, then the NXS2 I didn’t feel brought anything new to the table. I honestly wanted an XDJ with these features. I just might buy one of these to have some fun with it, if I like it, then I’ll buy the second one. Cool thing it you can actually mix with just one of them, but I’ll pair it up with my Technics 1200’s. I can say I honestly skipped the whole CD thing and always played vinyl, vinyl DVS, or USB. No one needs a cd player now a days.

  • KidCorporate

    God damn that mixer looks sick, a worthy upgrade to the X1600/1700.

    • Looks like it’s derived from the X7 prototype. The 1700 had discrete phono preamps, discrete headphone amp, and twin power supplies. Given how nice the PPD9000 sounded, though, and people’s love for the 1600, I don’t think the 1800 will be low-fi.

      • KidCorporate

        My X1600 was my favorite piece of gear, I wonder what the street price will look like for these…

        • Looks like just under 2 grand for each piece. I think they should be going for just over a grand each to really dissuade people from Pioneer DJ. I’m not sure what their cost is, though. The Numark X7, which was pretty similar minus the SPDIF ins and built-in switch as far as I can tell, was supposed to come in under a thousand dollars US from what I remember. It never actually made it into production.

  • decon

    I cannot not believe the hate on this thing. First of all, most of you, if any, haven’t tried this thing yet. You complain that it looks like a CDJ rip-off, and at the same time say that the CDJ is a club standard – so maybe it’s a good idea to make a product that DJ’s can quickly become familiar with. It’s less expensive than the CDJ-2000NXS2 Pro, which is probably what Denon wants to compete with. The Denon player have more features than the CDJ and have a look that sets it apart from CDJs. I didn’t hear that much rage about the green TR-8, actually, most reviews I’ve read said that it was looking great.

    Also, it’s not that expensive for clubs. This is not marked toward bedroom djs. And get the fuck off your high house with regards to sync, as if it’s hard to beatmatch on CD player. There’s so much infomation on the screens nowadays that it basically instructs you what to do. I mean, come on and give Denon a chance before raging. Also, the CD problem? Really? Maybe these DJ’s should spent a week and organize their music on USBs or Flash cards. You make it sound harder than it is.

  • Drew Long

    Stay out of the blue!

    • The truly only odd thing about it. Even the PPD9000, which has blue “liquid” LEDs, has red at the top. I actually hope they don’t put a limiter on it, outside of maybe the headphone jack. I like that on the Denons it was defeatable and nonexistent on the Pioneers. Full scale cut-off acts as a nice reason not to hit that top red. A hard limit without any incentive to compress the signal further.

  • Mathis Jacobsen

    One thing. Support! The Pioneer guys (Ill bet you all know Pulse and Gavin), are hands on with customers and DJs. They also listen to the ideas and needs, and some suggestions actually gets incorporated in firmware updates.

    Denon DJ on the other hand are arrogant and cynical. Take a look on the new engine prime software. Cool! But will it be avalible with there MCX8000? No! A year since release, and there has not been a single update to the crappy Engine 1,5 software. People who complain gets kicked out of there forums and Facebook sites. This company is all about the money, and dont care the slightest.

    For that reason alone, i am staying with Pioneer!

    • Allaboutthayvybz

      Totally Totally Agree!!!! Denon have a habit of abandoning hardware (in terms of updates etc) about 10 minutes after release. They’ve done the same with the SC3900/2900; MC6000MK2 etc. All of these were (are still) brilliant pieces of kit…..but Denon just let them die through total lack of support, and moved on to something else.

      Its like soon as they release something new…..they completely forget about everything that went before.

      Don’t even get me started re: Engine!!!! ……..

      • I don’t know that I agree with that. The SC3900/2900 were from the previous Denon DJ prior to being acquired by InMusic. It seems like InMusic decided to start fresh, albeit probably with products already in-development within Numark, but it’s not as if the SC3900 suddenly can’t play tracks off a USB because it’s been discontinued. After Pioneer DJ was acquired by KKR, they dropped the CDJ2000NXS and XDJ1000 for new models, the latter being quite new.

  • MiQ

    I would assume the Rekord Buddy guy will integrate Engine Prime into his software at some point. I wanted to switch from Traktor to Pioneer for almost a year and held off until Rekordbuddy 2 came out because of the time I’d invested in gridding and cueing my music. Now I use Traktor as a protected source and use Rekord Buddy 2 to sync all my grids and cues across to Rekordbox.

    Denon need to hope Rekord Buddy 2 becomes Engine compatible or they need to do it themselves like they have with Serato coz I can’t see many people ditching their databases to switch to these new units.

    • James Brian Thomaston

      They cant even get their engine 1.5 and prime to work together.

    • blackavenger

      You actually don’t need Rekord Buddy to support Engine Prime. Rekord Buddy already supports Serato (which is free to download) and since Engine Prime reads Serato metadata, it’s a perfect work around.

    • dj kvn

      How’s Rekordbuddy?

      • MiQ

        Working perfect for me so far

  • Luke Peter Annett

    They should add a pair of inputs and add dvs control to the SC5000. Oh! What a dream!

  • Jay Neural

    Anybody knows if this X1800 is class compliant (no drivers needed for mac) ?

    • Ross Noir

      Hi Jay,
      This is Ross from Denon DJ. Yes, X1800 IS class compliant for Mac OS!

      • Jay Neural

        OK so if it actually gets Traktor and Serato DVS support, it’s going to be the only mixer I know of (in addition to the rotary Rane MP2015 mixer) that does Traktor, Serato DVS and iOS audio support through Class-Compliant sound card, which also means no driver hassles with macOS upgrades… sounds good ! But I’ll wait for the DVS thing…

        • Jay Neural

          Just realized Ross is an official Denon rep. Thanks for taking time in forums/comments to respond Ross ! I guess you can’t commit for the DVS part for now. Let’s cross fingers. Still loving my Mc6000mk2 combined to my rotary-standalone mixer for now ! 🙂

  • Anthony Alonso

    When will we see RekrodBuddy support for engine? :-p

    • RekordBuddy -> Serato -> Engine

      • MiQ

        But what if you don’t have Serato ?

        • blackavenger

          Serato is free to download. You don’t need the full software to set cue points & loops, nor to analyze key, bpm or beat grids.

          • MiQ

            That’s a workaround though. I already have to maintain a Traktor and Rekordbox library. If I wanted an Engine library too I wouldn’t really want to set up a Serato library just to get it.

  • MiQ

    Just watched a short video on them. On first impressions they totally outclass the NXS2s in every way. I really hope Denon either destroy Pioneer or force them to release products we want with the features we request rather than what their shareholders want to maximise their profits.

    On second thoughts, I actually hope they just destroy them. Gotten far to big for their boots anyway.

    • Extremely well put, Been thinking of a way to explain (Rant) this in short, Its about time we had choices, but I fear until Denon gets endorsed by more big name DJs in practicality as suppose to advert hype, then Pioneer will still have us Blackmailed. But the words you mention are spot on.

  • Raid Zero

    After giving it a second look, especially on the demo video. The feature set is way better than the current NXS2’s. I can really appreciate the fact that they added LAN ports on the back of the mixer.

    It’s nice to see that they incorporated USB3.0.

    • Simmo

      I wouldn’t say ‘way’ better. there’s a few nice new additions but pretty much most of it is a copy & paste copy of the Pioneer NXS players, even the new Engine is virtually the same looking as Rekordbox. Shame Denon threw their existing customers under the bus with not making the new software compatible with ANY of the existing Denon range. Whilst i’m not Pioneer’s biggest fan, as least Rekordbox compatibility is across the whole Pioneer range.

    • decon

      OH nice that you did some research before posting your hate 9 days…

  • BoldFaceType

    This line will be competitive. If you look at the features of the media player it’s like they incorporated everything people weren’t getting in a CDJ and then some. All at $300 less. Spacecamp is right too. Denon will release a mid range and an entry level player and mixer before the year is out. If the mid-range player/mixer has as much bang-for-buck they’ll be good sellers period.

    Then there’s the clubs/pubs. A tough sell. Dislodging Pioneer would be like trying to replace Technics 1200 mk2 in the 80 & 90’s. There’s a tremendous amount of brand loyalty, regardless of features/quality/price. I think the key lies in the Engine Prime software and Big DJ adoption. If Engine Prime is offered FREE like Rekordbox then it’s possible for a DJ to walk into a booth a be ready to play on either system. If Engine is more reliable than Rekordbox that’s an advantage over feature set. If Serato and Traktor support is added quickly and remains solid I think that’ll put PioneerDJ in a difficult position. While Pioneer has said they’ll continue working with Serato, there’s no way we’ll see the kind of support we have in the past. Pioneer is perfectly poised to start phasing out Serato and we’ll start to see that happen this year. Serato has seen the writing on the wall by partnering with Roland. Also, If Denon can get enough Big name DJs to endorse, or at least try their system in public or on tape, maybe *in a few years* you’ll see more widespread adoption. If I were Denon I’d start sponsoring/featuring up and coming DJ/Producers. If they A&R it right they’re bound to break a few good DJs in the next 3 years.

    No matter how you cut it this is a big gamble for Denon, but I think they can do it. They have the clout, the timing is still good, and I think the industry, while fluctuating, is primed for an alternative to Pioneer. Most importantly, these products are pretty damn Dope! The media player in particular will be impossible to dismiss. I for one am excited to see what else Denon has planned for 2017.

    • allaboutthavybz

      Agree with everything you said. ell written.

  • des

    Big problem trying to brake into the market with this product is artists demand 2000nexus as spec on there booking request forms,so this product would have to have something exceptional when it comes to getting artists use and venues to install these as standard kit,its a shame but simply a fact I reckon ?

    • BoldFaceType

      Are you saying SC5000’s don’t have anything “exceptional” to offer over a Nexus?

      Top 100 DJs demand 2000Nexus, and then there’s the rest of us. Commonly referred to as the “Massive” for a reason. Would you, or anyone else on this forum turn down a *paying* club gig/residency/radio show b/c they were using Denon instead of Pioneer? I can think of only one reason I would refuse, and that would be if I couldn’t *prepare* for the gig. Either b/c I had to pay for Engine Prime and/or I didn’t have Serato.

      There was a time not too long ago when you had to have enough skills and knowledge to walk into any DJ both and Rock the House regardless of the equipment.

  • I am getting a pair (which equals 4 decks people!!!!!), looking forward to assisting in going up against Pioneer…Someone here mentioned it doesn’t play CD’s ha ha ha – Its 2017…

    • BoldFaceType

      I think loosing the CD players is actually a minor set-back, or a bit ahead of it’s time depending how you look at it. You have to remember it’s a *global* market and not every market has money/tech to go w/o physical media. Also, I DJ at a radio station and people almost always send their Demos on CD. In the recent past you could also make an argument for the quality issue, but most hardware/software supports lossless formats now.

      That being said, I think it’s time to ditch the CDs. The industry is only a year or two away from completing a transition to the next format (streaming media). Besides, USB sticks are so insanely convenient that even Denon had to follow suit. I have an XDJ-R1 and I personally never used CDs outside of my radio show.

      On as side note they could inject a lot of utility into the R1 and Aero if they supported RemoteBox/Rekordbox iOS on *both* units.

  • Sagar Samtani

    wow why so much hate. Denon is standing up to Pioneer Decks like none other. This is a true competitor to the CDJ range.

    Looking at the features it completely butchers the 2000NXS2. Dual-deck capabilities, Internal Analyzing of Tracks, Internal UPS, all that features costs a lot of money – which we haven’t seen on even the CDJ-Tour1

    Think about it, Pioneer just released their flagship 2000NXS2 and a follow up w/ XDJ-1000MK2, I’m sure their R&D can catch up w/ Denon, but that just means killing off their flagship which was just released – which doesn’t make sense to do.

    These are 3 years ahead in tech compared to the Pioneer CDJs.

    • Simmo

      3 years ahead? Absolute nonsense. There’s a few cool new features but the rest of it is very similar to what is already out there in the booths already with the NXS and NXS2 players. Good effort from Denon though, looking forward to having a go on the players when they’re in the shops. Shame that the mixer isn’t that great though….

      • Sagar Samtani

        Purely talking about the sc5000 vs cdj2000nxs2, does cdj2000nxs2 analyze track waveform and keys internally?

      • Sagar Samtani

        Internal ups, dual decks, usb 3.0, screen on jogwheel. All these features have not been seen yet on a media player.

        Think about the cdj2000nxs to cdj2000nxs2 upgrade, how long did that take? And count how many major upgrades were there?

        Dont you see pioneer is very slowly trickling small developments into their next models because they have no competition.

        Another example: ddjsz to ddjsz2. They could have easily integrated screens – which is now already expected of flagship controllers.

        Im not saying pioneer is not capable of developing a product same or better than sc5000 at the moment, im saying they are behaving like Apple and trickling in few upgrades only.

  • DJEcliptik

    My ONLY beef with the SC5000 Prime, at least what they showed in the video, is that the pitch can only go +/-50%? :/

    • Hopefully the Numark tendency to have very high pitch resolutions will be preserved, though. Denon DJ, Pioneer, and Gemini have all had poor pitch resolutions at wide ranges.

    • Ross Noir

      Hey DJEcliptik,
      This is Ross from Denon DJ. The SC5000 can do +/-100%. The example was showing how well the integrity of audio holds when key lock is at 50%. Our new algorithm is quite impressive especially how well the low end is retained. This is especially noticeable through large sound systems.

  • Anthony Alonso

    OKay. At first I was offended by the pricing of the unit… If it handles everything smoothly and can take a beating, the price point is wel worth it. THe only restriction I am waiting to see are dimensions and weight. Since we all know this will never be club standard (THanks to the Pioneer overlords), it would have to a be a unit able to travel. If I can fit two of em in a backpack and Rekordbuddy gives us support for engine, this could replace my D2’s and laptop.

    • Progrezzion

      Nice, I was thinking the exact same thing!

    • BoldFaceType

      I wouldn’t say “never”. I said that about Technics… “Unlikely” I can agree with.

      • Anthony Alonso

        It took CDJ’s over a decade to replace turntables as the standard.

        • BoldFaceType

          I think the rate of transition depends on what level you’re at. On the consumer level I can see 8-10 years for a *complete* transition. Less for semi-pro. Pro DJs and people behind the scenes, maybe 3-5 years. You tend to spot/adopt trends earlier as you get deeper in the industry.

    • Luke Peter Annett

      I like the idea of having a small 2 channel mixer and a single SC5000. That’s all you need and would be more portable and less setup than a controller/laptop setup.

  • nu_DJ

    wait, so can this play House music? like, let’s say I wanted a 4-to-the-floor at 128bpm, can it do that? or do I need special software?

    • Kevin Basher

      You need special software.
      It’s called “Paint”.

  • 2timesacid

    does that button look really wobbly 5m40s into the video?

    • I also noticed this, gives me a bad feeling now already about the quality of this product but it could be a first build device for demonstration……?

      • Pioneer DJ does have amazing buttons.

  • 11Fletcher

    Denon try again to be Pioneer and make a new copy of their mixer (just like with the X1700 & X1600).
    It’s funny thing that they took all the same thing from the DJM but put it in a different position just to make it look different, like the usb on the right, the vertical instead of horizontal touch strip.
    I use to really like the Denon product, mostly their CD player with vinyl platter, but it didn’t work out for them so they change their strategie and try to be a cheaper/better Pioneer (but seems they drop the “cheaper” part for this time).

    • The 1700 is still a better mixer than any version of the DJM-900. The X1800 is basically a slightly improved version of the Numark X7 prototype with an ethernet switch added to it. I suspect the players and the turntable were in development within Numark prior to the Denon DJ acquisition and InMusic just wanted to turn a new page with their premium products.

      • 11Fletcher

        I like the 1700 sound, it is clear and loud (but since the DJM900Nexus Pioneer made a big effort on that), but the building quality isn’t that great for that kind of price range, I had mine for 3 years, but after just one year, I had some issue with the output, the headphone control, some issue with the effet, and fader too, not just physical issue, but software bug. Maybe they made some effet with that 1800.

        On the other hand, I had the DNS-3700 for 5 year, and never had any problem with it (but I still prefere the CDX from Numark for the vinyl sensation with a CD player)

        Denon make good product but they are too much focus on the “Pioneer market” and copy too much their product now, instead of being innovative and offer something new and different (like Numark or Vestax use to do, and what Reloop start to doing now with stuff like the RP8000).

        For their VL12 the only new thing is the LED control, they don’t even put 2 start/stop (which is sad because they did a good thing for scratcher by putting their connection on the side of the turntable)

  • Jay Neural

    One thing that lacks to the VL12 in order to be in the spirit of their SC5000, would be dual RCA outputs in order to use it as a dual-deck device. Many of us would buy an LV12 and an SC5000 and enjoy 4 deck performance with instant choice between venial and digital 🙂 Anybody knows an accessory that would do this without two many cabled added ?

    • weslk

      Even if it had 2 RCA outputs, how would it play 2 records at the same time?

      • CUSP

        It probably has a deck switch mode. Lots of controllers already have this.

        • weslk

          Yes, I know that, but it was a reply on Jay Neural’s comment, he was talking about the VL12. Even if it had 2 RCA outputs, how would 1 turntable physically play 2 records at the same time?

          • Jay Neural

            weslk you are correct, i was thinking for dvs of course and not analog mode, but looks like Traktor does handle routing one input to multiple decks then handles dvs/internal playback mode automatically. I don’t know for Serato though.

    • Luke Peter Annett

      Imagine if the SC5000 was capable of being a dvs device to turntables….. Add a couple of rca inputs, modify the software. BOOM!

  • Jay Neural

    Anybody knows if this X1800 is class compliant and hence iOS compatible like the MP2014/2015 ? My MP2014 works with the camera kit and doesn’t even need a hub ! Perfect for iPhone/iPad on second USB port… just in case…

  • Jay Neural

    bring X1800 Serato and Traktor DVS certification
    bring SC5000 Serato and Traktor HID support
    … then just take my money !

    • Kevin Basher

      They will!

      • Jay Neural

        How do you know ? I’m still waiting for my MP2014 and for the XDJ-700s 🙂

        • Kevin Basher

          The MP2014 is Traktor Scratch certified – don’t know about Serato, though.

          For the SC5000 (quoting Mark Settle / DJWORX):
          “A very important thing to make you aware of that’s not in the PR, is that the SC5000 Prime will in time be compatible with both Serato DJ and Traktor”

          http://djworx.com/namm-2017-denon-dj-sc5000-player

          As for the X1800:
          “Just like the SC5000 Prime, discussions for Serato DJ and Traktor are taking place, but nothing to announce at the time of writing.” – same source.

          • Jay Neural

            That sounds good. Though manufacturers always say they’re in talks but don’t always materialise it. I think I’ll wait a little bit. For MP2014 Rane has been “in talks” with Serato for over a year and still nothing.
            I hope they’ll have the announcement for NAMM just to steal the headlines… I already have a Denon Mixer (the MC6000MKii) and I love it. I’m sure both the X1800 and the SC5000s are amazing hardware.

          • Kevin Basher

            The “old” Denon always was like “we’re in talks”- but nothing happened.

            Under InMusic that is likely to change.
            They would be plain stupid to leave out certification for Traktor and Serato, as a lot of famous DJs request this.

            For the MP2014 it’s a different story as the future of the mixer is rather unknown. In Germany, both are listed as discontinued in all major stores.

            I would not have too high hopes for a Serato certification.
            Better switch to Traktor 🙂

          • Jay Neural

            That’s what I did for now, I heard they discontinued production of both MP2014 and MP2015 and will restart it this summer… but in Asia rather than USA… So I guess mine will be a collector ! 🙂

          • Simmo

            Certification for Traktor and Serato is not guaranteed at this stage and blowing $1900 a unit on these in the hope they might get certified represents a massive risk for the consumer.

          • Scott Frost

            Those mixers will be phased out now the inMusic has bought Rane.

          • CUSP

            Exactly! In talks means vaporware. I wanna’ see it work the way I want to use something BEFORE I buy it.

          • Jay Neural

            This business of software makers model of limiting the user in order to certify hardware for cash is really bad for the consumer. I’d be glad to pay twice the price for the software rather than buy two mixers just for silly software limitations. Especially for DVS when all mixers use the same Cirrus Logic or cheaper chips, it’s quite ridiculous.

          • CUSP

            Yeah, I’m *STILL* boggled by the fact that Machine and Trakor don’t work hand in glove. I love both of these programs independently, but I get aggravated when I think about how these products are made by the same manufacturer and people have been asking (to put it lightly) for integration for at least 3 years, but we all know it’s been more… and yet, nothing… worse than nothing, it took Ableton Link to push things forward.

    • effendy

      Why buy an expensive player for traktor ?
      You still have to watch on laptop
      Waste of money .

  • Alex Mci

    Don’t think i will be swapping my X1700 for the X1800 any time soon.

  • LUNR WLF

    PS, i don’t really see a reason to have 55 fps on the media player screen…
    do they expect DJs watching a movie on it?! not to mention that will definitely have a strain on the players RAM, leading to bugs i the hardware

    • CUSP

      They’re trying to compete with all the controllers with screens built-in. I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about the raster-rate of their built-in screens on their controllers. Also, 55fps is not standard for video… 60fps is.

      • Frame rate, not raster rate. It’s not drawing the screen line by line. And compatibility with NTSC and ATSC refresh is not particularly relevant considering this has no video output. Their point was that there is more temporal information on screen with the SC5000 than any other standalone-capable model on the market. It’s smoother, more responsive, easier on the eyes, and relays more information.

        • CUSP

          I’m sorry, you’re trying to inject doubt where there is none. Digital video renders line by line, which is the definition of progressive scan. Interlacing is rendering every other line (odds, then evens) (what you are claiming).

          Much research has been done on the science of “moving images”, and it is proven that most human beings cannot see anything over ~15 fps, and anything more than 15 fps gives you ever-diminishing returns, which is why the NTSC standard was 29.97 fps (double what the human eye could perceive). We’ve only bumped up the framerate on Digital Video because it produces crisper colors and helps to handle anti-aliasing. It doesn’t produce “even smoother, more responsive, easier on the eyes” images as you claim. You literally cannot see the difference between an image rendered at 30 fps and 60 fps. This is hard science… actual “we proved it” fact.

          Please, just stop. You’re wrong.

          • Oh I’m sorry, they raster at the speed of light.

            In ideal circumstances, about 10hz is the minimum necessary to get persistence of vision. Under the same ideal circumstances, 15hz is the maximal frequency at which rods are stimulated in the time domain. Again, under ideal circumstances and ignoring the stimulation of the cones in the eye, field of view, and dynamic range in use.

            US Military found temporal perception into the hundreds of frames per second, though in a narrow field of view angle of a small display and with low dynamic range variance like in this application, it’s unlikely you’d see any benefit past 50 or 60ish at best. The use of an OLED is interesting because many small LCDs, even if they can accept higher refresh, often don’t have the latency to accurately display it. 55hz is probably the limitation (and native refresh) of the particular OLED they’re using and they chose to maximize it.

            30hz B&W NTSC had nothing do to with the science of the era on human visual perception, but was rather an even divisible of the 60hz used for the US electricity and was close to 24fps used in commercial movies that people were accustomed to. 24fps used in motion pictures was simply an average of two pre-existing and successful claw-shutter framerates of the era, though Edison advocated an even higher framerate because it was more realistic and less fatiguing. Edison was actually the first scientist to demonstrate this, and it continues to be demonstrated in both academia and the government, with virtual reality and simulation applications tending towards demonstrating the utility of the extremely high rates way past 60 when wide visual field immersion is the goal.

            What was the justification for criticizing the Denon’s lack of adherence to existing TV standards?

          • CUSP

            Is this a rap battle? Cause if it is… yo momma’.

            Now let’s get on with the debate… I’ve worked with military and high-end video (and got my degree on the topic), and yes all of the frequency ranges you speak of are true, but that doesn’t change the fact that the hardware exists to meet certain frame lock sequences. Denon is not in the business of creating video, but nVidia is (you might recall the founders came from SGI whom in turn came from the military human electronic perception program, which founded the VR training program). Their studies showed a wide range results and ultimately settled upon these aforementioned standards as “acceptable, but not accurate” meaning, they used these standards even though they knew they were not ideal because human beings range in their abilities to perceive (color-blindness and blindspots not withstanding).

            Second, most of us whom have ever worked with/in the military know there’s a bunch of things they do which do not make sense but they do them anyway. The term “The right way, the wrong way, and the military way” was coined to address this issue. You should really be referencing scientists (whom indeed studied the works of Disney and Muybridge as their foundation).

            Third, there is no way that Denon would put the kind of energy into making displays for DJs because the cost to do so would be astronomical, even if they got the information for free.

            Fourth, speed of refresh has very little to do with human perception, brightness, smoothness or even persistence of image at this rate (as you claimed was a selling point) and is considered to be negligible and imperceivable by most of the experts working in the industry, but when applying that science to a DJ controller, the claim is laughable (at best). It’s simpler to use the standard 60hz HDMI optimized chips.

            So let’s summarize here: You’re not making movies on your controller, you’re not editing photos on your controller, and you certainly do not need that refresh rate for text.

            On a side note: Frame lock matters in video when in reference to audio, and that’s the topic we’re discussing: DJ controllers, the primary purpose of which is to play back audio. So, if the video frame lock does not sync with the audio, the purpose has been defeated. If Denon cared enough to one-day include video DJing with their gear, they’re kinda’ screwed because that’s not a supported frame rate by any known video presentation formats. Which means you’ll have to use a computer for video, which defeats the stand-alone format they are selling here.

            We can have a nice, long debate about this, but there are controllers out there (like the S5 and S8) that use industry standards which are video supported.

            I’m going back to DJing now…

            Mic drop.

  • LUNR WLF

    But with so many of these controller-related features on the SC5000, surely there will be reliability issues with the unit…

  • ace

    Do they really think that everyone is gonna suddenly change from Rekordbox to Engine?
    On the fly track analysis is cool for a quick jam session………. maybe.
    But what about all the music Dj’s have spent years griding & adding cue points to?
    Almost every ProDj has used Rekordbox to prep & Cue their tracks.
    Engine is absolutely terrible software, what suddenly makes this one any better?
    Seems like each time they release a new deck, they release a new music manager.
    So all their existing customers can go suck a thumb or buy their new decks….
    Then they’ll drop Engine Prime V2 (or some other name) which doesn’t your decks.
    The hardware is good. The software (which the hardware depends on) sucks.
    Buying Denon products is a huge gamble and at this price, I think the risks are too high.

    • LxSounder

      Maby RekordBuddy get a Update…

    • mikefunk

      There should be open format for everybody, but… that’s just a dream…

      • Not sure it’s even necessary to placate Rekordbox people when it can read Serato metadata and analyze the files reliably on-the-fly. The NXS2 can only scan the file in the crudest form as you play the track. Personally, I don’t need any of this stuff, but as far as the topic of people who are dependent on saved cue points, moving wave forms, and analysis, the SC5000 seems to be covering more bases than anyone else.

  • Pingback: Denon takes on Pioneer with Prime DJ range and Rekordbox rival | Our Ladies and Gentlemen()

  • Scott Frost

    It doesn’t even beat the flagship from 5 years ago.

    http://static.djbooth.net/pics-equip/dnx1700.jpg

    • Kevin Basher

      How does it not beat the x1700?
      Elaborate, please.

    • Probably not in terms of fidelity, as the 1700 still beats anything ever released by Pioneer, but the 1600 was oddly a better seller and some people have been complaining about the 1700’s reliability. The 1800 appears based off of the X7 prototype.

  • Oddie O’Phyle

    My local gear shop shows the VL12 as a discontinued product. Does this mean that they stopped production of the VL12 in favour of the Prime model? If so, what would be different in the new Prime build?

    • no. they announced the vl12 last year at NAMM and a bunch of retailers had it up for pre-order. I dont know how they changed it from last January’s prototype but I do know, or can infer, rather that they decided to roll it out as part of their Prime series. I dont think the original VL12 was ever in production

      • Oddie O’Phyle

        That’s really strange, they had the VL12 listed since last August or so. When I talked to the sales rep. he told me that their distributor just had to order it in.

        • huh wierd – every site I’ve seen, including guitar center had them listed as “pre-order” – but today guitar center had pulled it from their site.

    • The original VL12 pre-production and (I presume) early production model had limited distribution. A few got first-looks. It’s being redesigned/tweaked after getting a bunch of feedback from various experts in the field. That’s actually kind of amazing considering InMusic’s prior behavior of just dumping products and jumping to something completely different when there is constructive criticism, like throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. This could be a big change for them as a company culture.

  • Be

    “ringed with RGB lighting around the entire platter for a unique look and feel”

    I’ve seen this on modified Technics 1200s and it’s awesome.

  • Chad Soulkutz Robertson

    I feel like denon missed a great opportunity here. The pricing is too high. Clubs aren’t going bail on the standard Pioneer gear that has been proven to work and is preferred for such a small price decrease. And even more importantly the average dj who is investing in cdjs at this point is trying to play with the same standard you find in most clubs which again is Pioneer. If you’re saving money to purchase cdjs you’ll likely save am additional 300-600 to get a pair of pioneers. Feature sets are nice for the denon but again, if you don’t get to use those once u step foot out of your bedroom it’s hard to justify the price. Pioneer has seen many players over the years with better feature sets and yet it maintains its grip on the industry. These denon players need to come down a couple hundred more and then a massive marketing campaign would need to happen to make any sort of change. For now, there will be the few early adopters who like to try something new and in 3 years these players will be massively discounted selling on eBay.

    • Aaron Jaraba

      You should read the article by Mark @ DJWorx as he explains that Denon is addressing this on all fronts – not at least by giving away a whole stack of them to ‘DJ Culture influencers’
      djworx.com/namm-2017-denon-dj-sc5000-player/

      • Ravi N’ Pav Chona

        that explains the cost, in order to give them away, they got to charge more to recover the cost

        • anarchocaptiolist

          no, that type of cost is called an “MDF” or marketing development cost, which is specific to the customer in which Denon is selling to.

          “giving them away” is still a marketing cost, but it’s not a build of material as you are suggesting. its capitalized, which means its fixed, and comes out in selling general and administrative.

          think about it, it wouldn’t make sense to average out the cost of giving away those products into the actual price that youre selling. There isn’t anything explicit that requires Denon to give away these units in pursuit to make another unit. However, the might need to give away these units in pursuit to sell another unit.

          • CUSP

            They’re hoping the tastemakers will be their “loss leaders”… inspiring the wanna’ bes to buy the gear their heroes have.

          • Ravi N’ Pav Chona

            Nowhere did I say it was a material cost, it is a marketing cost agreed. I am in no way a marketing guy so I may be wrong but I do think that proceeds of sales goes to covering marketing and promotional costs. If that was not the case, do you think other consumer goods companies that spend crazy amounts of money on ads and “promotional giveaways” don’t somehow incorporate that in the price point? Do sales of material goods only go back to the HW, FW and SW development teams? I may be wrong but no successful company gives anything away for free. Just cause DJ (enter name here) didn’t pay, doesn’t mean others don’t make up for it.

          • anarchocaptiolist

            absolutely, the proceeds from any Denon sale will go to cover the promotional costs. but could you easily link a promotional cost of said denon sc5000 to a customer that just bought a Denon controller? could it be possible that the Denon promo caught the eyes of a potential customer and which lead them to a whole line of Denon products?

            Its hard to link that causation. so instead, its a selling general and administrative cost.

            If denon hired another warehouse worker, do you think the cost of their products would go up? probably not. same idea applies here.

    • LUNR WLF

      not to mention that pioneer has been the club standard for over a decade!

      • Ravi N’ Pav Chona

        that explains the cost, in order to give them away, they got to charge more to recover the cost

    • Chad Soulkutz Robertson

      It really is going to come down to marketing and how much their willing to throw at it. Thing is, most club owners don’t really care what equipment they have as long as it works and is known to work. Even if they become a favorite of bedroom djs and the djs they love, unless they can make a dent within the industry its going to be very difficult. And let’s not lie to each other, most djs absolutely hate learning new tech. For a lot of djs who are playing on rekordbox in clubs aren’t going to be begging anyone for new gear. This is going to be a very difficult uphill battle for denon. These units looks great and I’d even opt for em, but if I’m gonna fork out over 3k for a full setup I would still choose the standard so that I can know the ins and outs as best as possible.. If denon takes off it won’t be a for a few years down the road. Might as well wait til you see these popping up in clubs (which isn’t very likely) before purchasing.

    • decon

      It’s like saying that clubs aren’t going to replace their old CDJs with new CDJs. What are getting at? Try to be more progressive rather than just hating on something you haven’t tried yet. I for once, I’m glad to see some competion. Again, the pricing is lower than the 2000NXS2, so wtf…

  • Deejay Elisée

    Something I Will Want To Know Is This Player Need Engine To Scan Mp3 For Waveform,Bpm Etc…….Like The Pioneer Use Rekorbox And U Need To Scan Or Analyze Files To Get Info ,waveform etc……. Is This Player Scan On The Fly The Mp3,Waves Like Trakor,Serato Or VDJ?

    • Agungald

      watch the videos sir, yes they stated it can analyze on the fly without the engine software.. even the beatgrid and the key too.. a big step forward from pioneer’s

  • anarchocaptiolist

    Wow, this is actually a unique product. It consolidates three pioneer products into one:
    two cdj/xdj players and the SP1.

    Pioneer would have to completely redesign their products to deliver something on par with this. I’m actually interested in this

    • IMO this consolidates one-step short for a guaranteed game-over scenario for Pioneer DJ, but oh well.

  • Doug

    As much as I like Denon, I think that the design aesthetics of both the mixer and the player look cheap… and whats that about changing the red to blue?? Is someone trying to reinvent the wheel??
    Yes the product may be rock solid, yes it has much better features then Pioneer, yes the flexibility that allows you to add your own logo is great, but in the end, looks count as well… these are my 2 pennies…

    • Doug

      @djtechtools get ready to sell a lot of knobs for the mixer….

      • Scott Frost

        these are ugly… i know it’s not all about looks, but the S3700/3900 looked professional, these look like Gemini.

        • They just look like Numark scifi inspired stuff, probably because they are. Not a bad thing. I still think InMusic is missing the obvious.

    • Spacecamp

      Be sure to watch the product video in addition to the images above – I think Denon’s gear looks much better in the videos. Their rendered product photos look overblown and cheesy, while the video gives a better sense of the unit.

      • CUSP

        This would have been an awesome family of gear… 2-3 years ago. The fact of the matter is that hardware isn’t worth *THAT MUCH* more than a controller/computer combination. When all is said and done, the majority of new DJ equipment isn’t hardware like this, it’s controllers with jogs/touchstrips or turntables with timecode. I bet most of the people buying hardware like this are the analog holdouts that simply don’t want to buy a computer because they can’t admit they were wrong about digital DJing. I guess that’s fine, but they’re paying a premium for it and not getting any real advantage for doing so over the controller/computer combo.

        Everything on this list is at least $300 overpriced above their competition, and that’s enough for most people to say “Nope, getting the less expensive one” even if they really like these features. I generally like the concepts Denon brings to bear, but they have an odd sense of marketing… almost as bad as the PR lady at Technics calling us DJs “problematic.”

        • Big C

          You’re considering the fact that everyone is okay with bringing their computer to a gig. I for one hate it – and I know others are in the same boat. I’d rather just pack headphones and USB sticks and not have to worry about my computer all night when I’m out in a packed bar or club.

          • CUSP

            That’s an awful lot of trust too. You’re betting that everything works right on the house gear… which is the other side of the coin. Many of us have been in a DJ booth wasn’t working properly, and that variable can be best managed by bringing your own gear to your event… that is if your gear works well to begin with. If it doesn’t, you might as well cast the dice and bring your thumbdrive and headphones.

          • It’s basically the people running these nights sick of dealing with the endless line of sync tards, laptops, and controllers.

          • CUSP

            So… are you saying you want people to not sync their tunes, not have a (virtually) limitless library of songs to choose from, and hardware that’s heavier and not as capable as the best controllers?

            All I care about when I go out is “Is the music being played great?” it’s even better when the songs work together, but glitching, much like the air horn sample, or any other effect can be overused… which isn’t a function of the controller, it’s a failing of the operator.

        • The ones this is targeting are rather those that have been there, done that, and have had enough of dealing with people hunched over laptops all night with their endless glitches and lengthy hookups between sets. You’re also oddly misstating the price, which is at least $300 less than the nearest competition that also has fewer features. Obviously if these were coming in at half their stated MSRP, then prospective buyers would be even happier.

          • CUSP

            There are a few controllers with screens built in to them, and all that really changes for people whom are affixed to their screen(s) is where they’re looking. Yeah, no one wants to hear a deep, moody, part of a song glitched up, that’s screwing with the flow. Quite honestly, I think what you have a problem with is people acting like amateurs using their modern technology as a crutch instead of a powertool.

            I can literally drop my computer stand, slide my controller in, hook up my laptop and controller to power and USB, my controller into a patch bay, and play music in less than 3 minutes (because I fire up the Mac before I set up in the DJ booth). I’ve never seen anyone drop a CDJ coffin in and hook up in anywhere near that time (partly due to clearing so much space for their kit), and if you’re using Turntables or loose CDJ units, you’re probably hitting the 10 minute mark if you’re plugging and patching in.

            How am I missing the mark by $300? I have a MacBook Pro laptop and S8 controller which will do everything this gear does (except play records)… but it can with the touch of a button and a quick patch into one of the 4 decks, and that seriously cost me about as much as one of the SC5000s. We have to consider ALL things that are competition, right? The Pioneer approach has slightly fewer features, but it’s less expensive, and what do you get for that extra $300? The glitchy stuff you said you don’t like.

          • Real DJs and real devout club goers do not want to see sync tards with their laptops. They want to hear people mix by ear, flaws, raw reality, and all. This automated shit needs to stay in the production realm.

            The Pioneer CDJ2000NXS2 costs $300 more than the Denon SC5000.

          • CUSP

            You’re certainly welcome to your opinion, but I’d prefer to hear other people speak for themselves. On a personal observation note: I’ve seen the crowds get more into the groove when the DJ isn’t constantly making mistakes and groove-killing. The funny thing about becoming good at what you do means you’re actually producing something with fewer flaws than the average person. It’s one of the reasons people flock to big name shows.

    • These look like Numark/InMusic designs with the Denon DJ name on them. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. I like the PPD9000 and the TTX, and I was hoping Numark would step up with an all-format player. I was also looking forward to the creation of a brand new turntable designed from scratch. I thought Numark could do a good job with something like that catering more to audiophile DJs and less to scratch ones. I wish Denon DJ was still independent, but I’m glad someone is trying this stuff regardless of what the brand is.

  • BobbyBob

    Just A/B these with the Pioneer and you will see the difference and value. Say hi to the future.

  • David Deutsch

    Good looking products, but not competitive enough pricing to encourage new software adoption. Any club is going to pony up a relatively measly $300 to get flagship, Pioneer products in their booth. I think it’s safe to say that most DJs are prepared to play off a thumb drive with Rekordbox, or Traktor. Would it be that difficult to integrate traktor track preparation into Denon CDJs?

    • I agree it’s hard to see clubs in the short term justifying something like this just to save $300, but I think it’s plausible users might when they’re getting four deck like functionality for $5500. Over time, even without price cuts, it’s possible clubs might catch on. I have played out on NXS2 without bothering with Rekordbox and I find it very enjoyable.

      If their cost is low enough, I think InMusic should be trying to compete with the pricing of the XDJ1000mk2. Pricing all these units at about a grand, a full four deck style system for under $3500 would change things for the long term. With the Serato metadata reading and on-the-fly analysis of the SC5000, it would be difficult justifying the XDJ1000mk2 at the same without even dedicated hot cue buttons.

      Considering the ubiquity of Serato for many newer DJs who have never even touched a Pioneer CDJ, the Denon would also have a big advantage. I’ve been to open deck nights where it was literally the first time many of the others had ever touched dedicated players, but most of them had Serato libraries. It was far more of a hassle for them to do Rekordbox analysis ahead of time and try to get the swing of a NXS2 than if the Denons had just been the players.

  • thebigblaa

    The LAN hub in the mixer is welcome as is the ISO eq. Not sure about yet another program to drive the best grids though

  • Billy

    Someone at Denon thought the dual layer player warranted doubling the appropriate price for the SC5000. Pioneer will ape this feature on the xdj1000mk3 and this player will be dead in the water…

    • Spacecamp

      XDJ-1000mk2 just came out less than three months ago – very little chance that we’ll see a new model there for at least another year.

  • Raid Zero

    Kinda disappointing to see Denon blatantly rip-off Pioneer, I understand that you have to draw influence from somewhere but at least make your hardware look original instead of a copy cat. Especially on the mixer, JFC.

    • Agungald

      i think pioneer somewhat creating industry standard, like when the ford first create cars, the steering wheel, speedometer, seat, wheel etc2 placed on same position, just the aesthethical design is differ from another brand. That is not totally rip off or copycat from Denon, it is just industry standard mate, anyway, those Denon might be better in terms of the feature that Pioneer’s, who knows?

      • Envinite

        Yup, Pioneer’s CDJ is pretty much universal standard by now, so making an ‘original’ layout would be a risk for a device that is meant to be used by many DJs. It’s just a convenience thing, even most mixers & controllers have similar layout for its essential function nowadays.

  • effendy

    I think the hardware is okay , but its all about the software engine prime.

  • Noname

    Expensive to compete with Pioneer…

    • You can play 2 tracks on 1 deck, you’re essentially getting 2 decks in 1. That’s much cheaper than getting 4x NXS2’s.

  • Scott Frost

    ew ew ew ew the x1800 is nowhere near the quality as the 1700…. such I pioneer rip off it’s not funny….

    • Ryan Ruel

      You can tell that by a single photo and a press release? 🙂

      • Scott Frost

        Yup.

    • It’s building on the Numark X7 prototype, not copying the Pioneers. The DN-X1700 is hard to match, though. Pioneer still can’t.

      • Weaver2

        I still love my old DN-X1600 which I got for 1 grand back when it released. Honestly it does everything I need to and I like it more than the DJM-900. I cannot say I’m nearly as attached to my SC2900s though lol.

        • At least Numark is finally doing a Link in the Denon DJ branding that’s at Pioneer DJ’s level. Besides the shit firmware, the 2900/3900-style link is the biggest fail on the Gemini MDJ-1000.

  • mikefunk

    Well…. expensive…

    • Agungald

      should be 300$ cheaper to take on the Pioneer’s market LoL

      • CUSP

        Yes, I think Pioneer is their target market, and it doesn’t make much sense to be more expensive than your competition.

        • It is 300 cheaper. WTF are you two talking about?

          • Neil Walker

            I think he means that it would need to be another 300 bucks cheaper than that to compete with Pioneer so closer to 600 cheaper per deck in total.

          • That’s not actually what he said, but let’s assume multiple times he misspoke in exactly the same way and what you’re saying is actually what he meant. Still, it’s completely arbitrary. The Denon has far more features and costs less than the Pioneer. It’s already a better buy in a number of respects. IMO, the Denon ought to cost half the Pioneer. Other than the fact I want the Denon SC5000 and Pioneer CDJ2000NXS2 to both be as cheap as possible, my pricing is entirely arbitrary. Now, I personally think coming in at half the Pioneer’s price with more than twice the features and capability would nearly ensure InMusic would topple Pioneer DJ even with Rekordbox’s entrenchment due to the Denon’s ability to read Serato metadata and do on-the-fly analysis reliably, but that doesn’t mean InMusic is willing or capable of such a pricing.

        • Cobra

          To be a DJ you should be able to pass an IQ test with a certain standard. This is a better piece of equipment than the flagship from the competition and cheaper. This is not competing against the XDJ-1000. Some internet people need to cancel their data plans.

          • CUSP

            Hey, I use an S8 with my MacBook Pro… that whole combination was less expensive than one of these SC5000s.

          • Cobra

            But why focus on the SC5000 and not Pioneer which is less for more? That is my whole point. The masses are severely brain washed.

          • CUSP

            I can lead a horse to water, but I can’t make it drink.

          • But the flagship product of the competition might not be the cheapest in the competition’s lineup with the minimum desired feature set.

      • Sagar Samtani

        Ketemu disini juga 😀

    • Spacecamp

      One thing to think about: they’re putting out this unit, and odds are pretty good if it is successful there will be a cheaper/simpler version in the future.

      Pricing a product is hard – you want to be competitive, but also not come off as the cheaper/crappier version compared to the industry standard. The S5000 has more features than a top-of-line CDJ-2000NXS2, is $300 cheaper, and still a lot of DJs are noting that the feel like it isn’t cheap enough.

      Personally, I’m going to wait until I can review one of these in person to decide if I’d consider ditching my CDJs for them. Stay tuned!

      • LUNR WLF

        except for the fact they don’t play CDs ?

        • Spacecamp

          Good riddance. If you want a non-USB backup, get a large SD card and leave it in your media player.

          • CUSP

            I like that they added the SD Card reader… but if you have a computer, you’ve been able to do this for years.

          • Oddie O’Phyle

            I still get a few DJ’s that show up with 15 years worth of music on CD in a bunch of wallets. At the DJ point of view I see your point, as someone who books DJ’s… it would make more sense to include support for an external CD/DVD drive. After all, the unit does have 3x USB ports.

          • Venues often still have CDJ1000s around that can be hooked up, and if they don’t, CDJ1000s and plenty of other models are easy enough to find used for cheap. CD mechanisms are current hogs for the power supply due to their motors, and are often the first thing to malfunction.

          • LUNR WLF

            Yeah, 3x USB Ports…….But Y tho????

        • ithinkmynameismoose

          Neither does just about any DJ these days.

      • Yes, I think it isn’t cheap enough.

      • Basically it’s more than twice the capability (minus CD reading) and at already cheaper cost. If they could price it at $1100 per unit MSRP, then if they pull off the actual reliability, I think unquestionably Pioneer DJ is in big trouble. They’d be under-pricing even the XDJ1000mk2. A lot of people won’t compute the “more than double the capability”, but half the price is easy to comprehend. You understand both, then it’s not even a debate anymore. The Serato metadata reading and on-the-fly analysis makes the lack of Rekordbox kind of moot. It’d be nice if they had some way of working VDJ metadata and analysis file reading in there, as I find that software far more useful for getting sets together at home than Serato, but VDJ doesn’t usually save the analysis files in the same folders as the music the way Serato and Torq does unless you specifically tell it to, if I remember correctly.

      • CUSP

        Pricing should be one of the original design specs, but as my father says “Price has nothing to do with cost.”

        Sure, pricing is difficult but that’s why we have focus groups. Marketing isn’t something I wanted to do, but it seems we all must learn a functional amount of as DJs (for a few reasons).

        This controller/media player seems like a full-featured foray into barely-treaded territory. I wonder why they didn’t target a price that was on-par with the current flagship CD player. I seem to recall that if you offer more (wanted) features at similar quality, for the same price, your product is seen as “better” or having “greater value.”

        All of this effort into a CDJ replacement device seems to presume Controllers aren’t sucking up this part of the market and the price people pay for CDJ units won’t come down to compete with controllers.

        I see that the SC5000 is trying to hit a part of the market few companies have tapped before, but it is my belief the people who want these features already have a computer with controllers or DVS… or even CDJs with time code CDs loaded.