After much speculation: Native Instruments is today finally announcing the next generation of the Traktor Kontrol S2 and Kontrol S4 controllers. In addition to new aluminum jogwheels and upgrading the controls to match advances in Traktor Pro, both units are now compatible with the Traktor DJ iPad/iPhone application. Read on for all the info, a video of both of the controllers in action, and exclusive details from Mad Zach and Native Instruments.
DEMO VIDEO
UPDATED DESIGN + CONTROLS
In terms of physical differences between the MK1 and MK2 generations, much of the design has stayed the same. There’s no touch-strips or jogwheel-less design like some of our forum members have imagined – and all of the I/O on the units remains the same. NI has limited their updates on the unit to a few key areas:
- color-coded RGB buttons (four on the S2, eight on the s4) for cues / loops / samples – the colors are dictated
- jog-wheels made of aircraft-grade aluminum – this will likely fix a lot of the wear issues that S4/s2 owners had. The resolution has stayed the same, but the magnetic braking system on the jogwheels is gone in place of the heavier wheels themselves.
- Flux Mode button for each deck, above the tempo fader
- Filter and Browse knobs now in a silver/gray color to match the jogwheels
Additionally – Mad Zach (who’s had a bit of a hands-on with the unit) reports that the feel of the controls is significantly improved versus the S4 MK1:
There’s improved feel and response of everything, from the jog wheels, fader, buttons are way better and the RGB backlighting is super bright (compared to the original)
The levels of the rear outputs have been increased from MK1. The balanced 1/4″ outs can now reach +18dBu. Other specs like dynamic range and crosstalk have also improved from MK1.
TRAKTOR DJ CONTROL
Both of the units are plug-and-play compatible with the immensely successful Traktor DJ iPad + iPhone app – and it’s likely that a big reason for the MK2 versions is to market the controllers directly to users of that application. The S2 MK2 and an iPad in particular seems like a good option for a lightweight portable mobile setup. The power supply is required for any iOS use – and will charge the iPad/iPhone in the process.
Native Instruments notes that the controllers now offer physical control of every function in Traktor DJ, including Freeze Mode. To control this mode, the app seems to assign numbers to each region of the frozen section of the track, which then corresponds to the cue point buttons. Mad Zach elaborates on how the Freeze Mode workflow operates:
You hit the left loop knob and it is like pressing freeze, then it puts the Freeze Mode points on your buttons and the LEDs move to the beat (slices) – you can see it in the first part of the video. You can also use your loop move knob to move the Freeze Mode zone rapidly.
Not sure what Freeze Mode is? See Ean’s video on Traktor DJ
What they don’t mention is that (for now) two channels on the S4 MK2 are completely unused when in a Traktor DJ workflow – there’s no four deck version of the iPad software set for release at this time. While just two controls on the S2 are unused in Traktor DJ mode (sample deck buttons and volume knob), the S4 has two unused channel strips (C+D), deck switch buttons, and the loop recorder button. But the S4 does promise more freeze mode control and dedicated filter knobs, so it does become bit of a toss up as to which is the better fit for the iOS DJ.
We also noticed in the video that Traktor DJ has two new icons visible in the interface (see screenshot at right) – a keylock indicator and a number button where the loop button should be. NI clarifies these features:
The “music note” is the Keylock button. This allows the user to enable and disable Keylock, but only when the S2 or S4 is connected. When no hardware is connected, the same 1.0 behaviour remains – keylock always on.
The “4” button is the Loop button. When the S2 / S4 is connected, this number represents the Loop size, which is fully adjustable before a Loop is set. Like with Traktor, this number ranges from 1/32 – 32.
TRAKTOR PRO CONTROL
Both controllers continue to have 1-to-1 control over Traktor Pro, and have added a flux mode button, RGB cuepoints and Remix Deck control to utilize advancements in that software over the last 3 years.
On the S4, the “Samples” indicator found on the MK1 is gone, instead replaced with “Remix” – for Remix Deck control in Traktor Pro which replaced the now defunct sample decks. Existing owners of S4’s can do the same thing since Remix Deck control got unlocked for all controllers with the release of 2.6.2.
KONTROL S4 MKII PHOTO GALLERY
KONTROL S2 MKII PHOTO GALLERY
PRICE + WHAT’S INCLUDED
The Kontrol S4 MK2 is launching with a $799 street price tag, and the Kontrol S2 MK2 will run $499 – both prices are $100 cheaper than their MK1 units were at launch. In the box of each is included a full Traktor Pro 2 serial – but if you want to use the Traktor DJ integration you’re going to have to shell out an additional $5 for iPhone or $20 for iPad (hopefully you picked it up for free earlier this summer!).
The units will ship October 1st – and yes, the DJTT store is going to be selling them with free Chroma Caps – we’re taking preorders now (Kontrol S2 here and Kontrol S4 here)
Have questions about the unit or the workflow? Let us know in the comments and we’ll press NI for answers right away.
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Is it just me, or is Serato software unstable? I thought it was my extensive music library so I reduced the amount of tracks in each crate to no avail. I’ve tried both versions with the same results. I’ve sent my Numark mixdeck back in exchange for a Traktor S2 MK2 in hopes that the Traktor software will run more smoothly for my mobile DJ operation. There are also hardware issues, one is a ground loop which I don’t blame on the controller, but after I lifted the ground and isolated it, I shill have a high pitch hiss which I get straight from the controller. No help when I tried balanced XLR cables.
I’m selling my traktor s2 / excellent condition text @ 626- two 9 zero – six 4 eleven / I’m in a California
do i need to rewire it up to a DAW to be able to record? other then that ive tried everything to record. im using the main 1 and 2 outputs on the back of my s2. what should i do????
Is it also possible to set up a first generation Traktor s2 with an Ipad?
good for toy djing.. children sized platter….
I’m amazed about the lack of new features! But I’m speechless that there is still no XLR input/outputs on what is a supposedly professional piece of equipment?!
NI, NI.. I don’t know what you are thinking…
I’m glad I picked up the S4 MK1 for a reduced price.
Well…Mk2 is the appropriate name for this controller. It’s not a new product, just a revision and i think only people that have money to spend will change their old s4 for this.
Those that compares S4 with pioneer DDJ-SX should think that dimensions are very different: about 66 cm against 50 cm…In a 16×32 area you can of course add more functions. Pitch sliders are still small because of the space they take. For bigger pitch they should reduce button size or build a bigger box.
( Funny thing is that i’ve drawn on paper ddj sx some years ago 🙂 )
I’m still using Audio8 + 4 channel mixer + xponent (with my mapping) and i have all the functions of s4 (and more, since they have forgot totally to put some buttons for change the key and make fine corrections on loop size)
I’m interested in seeing how the remix slots work, seeing as there’s no knob or button to scroll up and down the deck pages. I’m also really interested in seeing a possible Traktor Kontrol F4/F2, which would be like these, but replace the jog wheels with Remix Deck buttons.
As someone who already owns a MK1 – NI just gave me zero reason to upgrade; which was actually something I was looking forward to doing sometime soon…Great fucking job NI! < sarcasm…I'd argue the vast majority of us who use flux mode have already remapped it to something on our current setup – so while that's a nice touch and was needed; if that's your biggest improvement? No thanks…this seriously has no fucking reason to be named a MK2 either as it's honestly just a re-hash of the exact same thing they already made – it's more deserving of a MK1b title…
http://sandrarose.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/mckayla-maroney-not-impressed-getty.jpg?42e305
I’m very disappointed. Ive switched from vinyl to digital DJ after playing around on a Mixtrack Pro. The S4 was already out for some time so I decided to buy the S2 thinking there would be a new version of the S4 anytime soon and rather spend 800 to 900 on a newer product. When the new F1 and especially the X1 came out I was very eager to see this getting implemented into the new S4 controller. Maybe I expected to much, and I do like the Ipad freeze ability but to pay 800 for just that? I think not!
I think I rather keep my old s2 and wait for the S4 MK3 and hope its gonna be better, that or NI gives me a massive discount when I trade my old machine in!
Somebody knows if this unit is capable of sending midi clock out
Does anyone know when this product will arrive at your door if you pre order?
Can anyone tell me a little bit more about the Advanced Loop Function?
Pioneer CDJs and the Serato can manage loop sizes manually with the jogwheels
I would really like if this feature was available on updates!
I will say, I hope they updated the finicky USB port issue… apparently there are a lot of us who’s USB port has been pushed it or just plain separated from the motherboard. Also, I would’ve liked to have seen a “booth out” option or at least a configurable option in traktor pro 2. The Z2 has one…. don’t know a S4mkII can’t.. maybe even two headphone jacks? Personally, I use one just fine, but there has been instances where I have played b2b with someone and it could’ve came in handy…. maybe even some usb ports on this like the Z2?
Overall, asthetically this looks a lot nicer…. I can’t wait for a Z4 to come out so I can just pick up one of those. Just make the bloody thing like the Z2 and T1 combined. I’m sure they can fit in in a 12″ space.
I’ve noticed a plethora of negative feedback. I wonder how many naysayers are currently in the process of designing, creating, and distributing software and hardware elements for our collective DJ/Production needs?
Before shooting down NI’s latest offering outright, it might behoove us all to consider their vast lineup of, not only DJ software and controllers, but production oriented software and hardware as well.
I cannot imagine trying to juggle that budget while simultaneously attempting to appease every last pocket of an already diverse demographic pool.
I’ll admit, I will not be purchasing the new S4 Kontrol for many of the reasons mentioned in this thread. I will NOT, however, paint Native Instruments in a negative light due to my personal opinion of one of their new products.
NI has been a pioneer in this emerging industry and is still, by most accounts, THE industry standard when it comes to Electronic Music production and performance hardware and software.
Sure, we can all nitpick every single aspect of their product lineup and come up with an array of “I would have done it differently if I were to have made it” statements. The fact of the matter is, they build it, we use it. And the last time I checked, they’ve consistently provided breakthrough milestones along the way.
”
Dear DJ,
iOS 7 is here, but it seems there are serious issues concerning audio. TRAKTOR DJ, along with many other audio apps, is experiencing performance and stability issues on iOS 7. Initial testing has also revealed general audio performance issues that can affect some Native Instruments hardware. If you use TRAKTOR DJ or audio apps, we recommend you don’t update just yet.
Please see this Knowledge Base article for more details.
Please also note that an iOS device cannot be downgraded to iOS 6 after being upgraded to iOS 7.
We’ll let you know as soon as these issues have been resolved.
Best regards,
The Native Instruments team”
FAIL HARDDD. Nice NI. So no iPhone 5S or 5C buyers or anyone who purchases a new iPad can use your app. And your forced to use all of Apple’s soon to be unsupported apps and software. GOOD MOVE
Will NI or the DJTT store possibly offer a trade in for the MK1 versions of the S2 and S4?
is the MK1 going to drop in price?
I’ve been an S4 user since about 3 months after the MK1 was released and I have to start by saying I absolutely LOVE my S4. BUT….
I’m with most of the people on here that are disappointed. I was really expecting NI to step this up and from what i’ve read and seen they really didn’t do much.
1. I trust Mad Zach completely when he says, things “feel” better but I’m completely used to how the MK1 “feels” so thats not a big deal to me.
2. flux mode button? ok cool that there is a dedicated button but come on… I found on my S4 that i never used the “cue” button so i went in and re-mapped my cue button to be Flux Mode when i hit it. (no extra money spent here)
3. Fx are Fx… anything you can “design” you can do with both. its not like they changed anything there, they just added some “created” fx. the freez is cool but not worth the upgrade.
4. I DO like the colored buttons but I completely agree with everyone. why not 8 cue points.. yes you can have 8 if you change it in preferences but hey, I personally would like 8 dedicated buttons for cue points and then a possible additional 4 creating up to 12. that would be a definite improvement.
Personally i feel like DJTT lack of a true DJTT style review means that they felt the same way about this. I fully understand having to be “political” when it comes to this stuff because you work close with NI on allot of things but man i would love for you guys to tear this thing apart like i’ve seen you do in the past (beer and open windows). That’s just me though. I get the politics and fully respect what lines you have to tread lightly on. 🙂
Overall i’m just bummed. I’ve had a TON of problems with time code for well over a year now (still not fixed and NI isn’t helping at all), to the point that i stopped using my 1200’s. for the most part. i was ok with that but i was also expecting them to come out swinging with the new S4 and now they did this…. i’m seriously contemplating going back to Seratto but we shall see. i’m hoping for a big announcement over christmas of some new product that will change my mind.
Cheers everyone! DJTT for life (or as long as they are around) 😉
lol ppl are as pissed here as they are at digitaldjtips
I guess its not that big of a change from the mk1 but ppl need to chill out. Just cuz they want the controller of their dreams right now doesn’t mean its ready to be produced. Maybe NI hasn’t thought of it, can’t produce it cost effectively, still has old parts for the mk1 but wanted to improve it to catch up w/ the software edits, or just feels drastic changes too soon would alienate core users and beginners… Many ppl buy these products for the basic core features. I did before I really learned the ins and outs of traktor. NI’s a business. And I don’t mean that like its a conspiracy, I mean like they could go broke if they don’t manage their $. I doubt anybody in the comment section here has made donations to NI’s R&D 🙂
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad we’re all putting pressure on NI so they know how to better design their next product – yes this could’ve been better – but some of you guys seem seriously emotionally distraught by this. It’ll be ok.
I think we’re missing the point here. These are controllers that give us platters and physical knobs combined with touchscreen functionality. Thats a pretty big deal, and just the beginning.
All I know is that when I emailed NI a year + ago saying I wanted a small controller w/ “beat roll” and pads, they delivered. Give em time for the next big thing. They’re going in the right direction, I think they’ll deliver.
Or go make your own setup by combing gear and software to get the results you need.
I really hope they’ve beefed up the little plastic clicky buttons. I know the browse button on my MK1 S4 is getting kinda dodgy.
Madd Zach on the knobs !!! Redefine the classic use of a mixer with the emperor of the finger drum!
Did they loss a product designer or something? The only benefit i see here is to use my ipad instead? Can we have a product that is worth dropping more money on? looks like ill be waiting to see what they do with the mk3….
Where are the mpc pads? 16 per side would be epic
motorized platters?
more then 4 cue points(without lossing other abilitys)?
white version?
beat slicer?
Cupholder… joke
teflon coating?
bigger jogs?
RGB color feedback knobs (better EQing feedback)?
x-Fader curve??????????
spill resistant?
XLR????
4 external inputs instead of 2?
built in USB hub?
Touch strip?
Custom kits like the mk2 maschine?
X2 style effect?
depth to add custom arcade buttons?
VST compatibility?
No… they decided to add color. Cool, but thats not how to bring back old customers… i expected more from the company that makes the software….
Yeah Numark covered most of those with the NS7 MK2. That thing looks sick but its $1400. http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2013/09/numark-ns7-ii-video-talkthrough/
Ya it does look sick. Dont think it will work with Traktor thou. Ive been complaining about the v7 and ns7 for sometime now. At least numark made some great changes from the ns7 to the NS7 II
Yeah. Could probably map some of the functionality but you would lose a lot. Just goes to show that Numark can figure out what their users want and produce a controller but as for NI…?
Heres the video from BPM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFMDbOQzY1g
WANT WANT WANT, he its my birthday I dont have the cash now. Someone wanna Gift it ILL DO ANYTHING. Except sexual favors ;P
After my last S4 fell to bits I’ve been holding out for NI to come up with a new controller, better build quality, more features, something on a par with the ddj-sx. This is a crushing disappointment.
Absolute joke of a release!! NI need to start allowing 3rd parties native integration with Traktor because this just shows they’ve got zero intention of doing anything new or innovative themselves!!
Still no filterknob on the S2 MK2, why pay 500$/€ foor a 2 channelcontroller and no filterknob.
I waited for a new controller from NI but this is a big disappointment because:
-most topcontrollers have 8 triggerpads for cuepoints
-no touchstrip like on the X1 MK2
-jogwheels with platterpositionleds like the DDJ SX or NS6
-expensive( a S4 MK1 with a F1 is cheaper)
The only choice for me is the Pioneer DDJ SX or the Vestax VCI 400.
I think it’s disappointing from ni,
they just add a button and a few led to blingbling,
it looks like a marketing ploy, if they could add 8 buttons cues improve the sound card, and add some functions.
I already have a s4 and I really do not see the interest to go to mkII
so still no booth output huh guys?? idk in my first impression, i dont like RGB buttons, its too colourful, make it look more “Cheaper”, isn’t it?
if you look at the pictures of the s4, you can see that now you have a switch to choose the 1/4 output from main to booth and it has a volume knob to adjust as required. but that means you’ll have to use the RCA to connect to your main output
Well I have the original S4 and the only thing that interest me AND infuriates me is that this MK2 connects with the Ipad. Something as simple as a firmware update could change all this but fuck original users right?
Wrong, a common criticism but a false one – it’s not as simple as a firmware update, Apple won’t allow iPad peripherals to connect with iPads unless they conform to their “made for iOS” stipulations. The thing stopping the old S2 and S4 working with iPads is Apple, not NI.
Can you update us on how the booth output works?
if you look at the pictures of the s4, you can see that now you have a switch to choose the 1/4 output from main to booth and it has a volume knob to adjust as required. but that means you’ll have to use the RCA to connect to your main out
It is a bit of a disappointing update, but in NI’s defense, we have no idea what R&D they are working on. They could have a full blown new high-end controller in development right now, and announce it in 6 months. Thinking about their marketing strategy, it would probably undercut x1 mk2 sales if they put touchstrips on the S4 mk2. And following the apple strategy, maybe this is a stepping stone to the full blown professional grade controller everyone wants, with booth out, touchstrips, metal build, etc., so the s4 mk2 and the new controller could co-exist and serve different markets (like the iphone 4s and 5 did for some time). If that is the plan, then leaving out the features they did in this release makes sense. Maybe we should just be patient and see what the next 6-9 months brings before jumping to write them off.
I said this probably would happen in a previous blog. Native Instruments needs
to get away from the Apple model. It only works in the short run.
The S4 is and will always be a classic foundation for what a “pro”
controller should be, but the next gen should eclipse the original in
functioning and capabilities. The new S4 MK2 does not at all. Why
would you buy this with very little improvements. Probably a rehash, but
the fact that it has no XLRs is criminal. Flux Button(Whoaaaaaa!!) easily remapped..
This is a clear and concise statement that NI is not listening to its customer
base. There been thousands of complaints about the needed additions to the s4
and NI made very little. Just like the new X1 MK2, I see no reason to buy
the new s4,s2 because the originals can do the same thing. NI didn’t make
splash they mad a fart in the face of it customer base. I selling my Z2
and switching to Serato. PS NI thanks for not working with pioneer to make the
cdj 850 hid capable.
I agree. Though, to all the people complaining about XLRs; TRS connectors are effectively the same as XLRs. Just get some TRS to XLR cables; they use the same wiring, they just have different endpoints.
More INPUT options, on the other hand, would be nice.
I have maschine ,kontrolx1 and S4.
I have to say that the quality of the knobs is not good at all.
Its ok for a small kontroler like x1 but for machine and S4 i do not accept.
Native Instruments have problems with quality.
im dissapointed to say the least
I think that NI is just not investing anymore in this kind of products (all in 1 DJ stuff). Maybe it costs nothing for them to produce a similar unit while it serves to indicate that they are still awake and make regular updates.
To me anyway, this kind of setup is dead in 2013. Just look at the presentation, do we see him mixing tracks with the jogs? na it’s just finger drumming, something better suited to Maschine, Launchpad, Push, … let’s say, not Traktor.
Today, a DJ have to be modular, have to get pads and something to provide many samples and effects. Sooooo yup, I hope they are planning to make out of Traktor something more into the controllerist fashion (what about linking it to Maschine, VST insertion, that kind of improvments)
I don’t think the all in one DJ setup is going anywhere. NI may be straying away from it but Pioneer, Numark ect. are all producing new units and spending plenty of money on R&D so the market is definitely still there.
And Zach is backspinning with the jogs. Tough to achieve without them.
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are you expecting to pick up dj work here? hahaha good effort…
Native instruments it is not a hardware factory! In this field Pioneer wons the match.
I’m a little interested, but I wish they would have integrated a USB hub for modular controllers. I’m running out of ports!
it gets worse on price
i paid the pull my trousers down and spank me price of 800 now you are able to get one for 379 range is just disgusting
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Native-Instruments-NI-Traktor-Kontrol-S4-S-4-DJ-System-/370844144595?pt=US_DJ_Turntables&hash=item56580893d3
Still no XLR outs & no separate booth monitor volume control! 🙁 The only thing good about this is Mad Zach’s performance!
Fooked off right now…
Same old Cheap crap repackaged with a few little added extras ….
Why oh Why NI ?
DDJ-SR looks aesthetically pleasing to the eyes i wouldnt know how it fairs up when using but looks wise it puts S4 to shame ….
Pissed piussed and even more pissed to know i got my kontol just 3 months ago
Wow, really shocked at a lot of the misinformed comments here. First of all, the first S4 was very popular in the DJ community. Native Instruments isn’t going to completely revamp a successful product. Stick with a formula that works. The old S4 already had tons of great features. What they did do is fix a lot of problems people had with the last S4. Upgraded faders, a better jog (I personally never had a problem with the old resolution, so the fact that it has stayed the same doesn’t bother me). The new model also is updated to function better with the new version of Traktor (flux, freeze, etc).
Anyone who actually thought this was going to be a brand new controller with crazy features obviously wasn’t paying attention to what NI was saying. This is an updated version, not some whole new product. If you want touchstrips (which a lot of people don’t like) and experimental gear look into the X1 mkii and the F1. Thats what they are geared towards. The S4 was always a more traditional streamlined DJ controller. This S4 isn’t going to make current S4 owners want to upgrade to the new controller, but it will continue to bring in the sales of people who don’t own a S4 already.
Also, since the release of the original S4 you have been able to set 8 cue points and use the 4 buttons above the 1-4 cue point buttons as cue points 5-8. You don’t even have to re-map, this feature comes right out of the box. C’mon people, is this really worth complaining about? Not a groundbreaking product but not anything bad at all.
The problem is we want a new product. Pioneer and Numark has been making great new products with revolutionary performance pads, slip modes and etc. What did NI do in that time period? Making Traktor DJ related controllers? I’ve waited something cool for 3 years. 3 fkin years. Pioneer and Numark definitely hit me up with cool stuffs then why can’t NI? Yeah ok, this is an “updated” version, then, if the S5 comes in about minimum 7 months or so I will shut up. But if it takes 3 years again for them to make a “brand new product” then I have something to complain about.
It only took Pioneer to make a “brand new product” 2 years. The S1 was released in 2011 and the DDJ-SX in the late 2012. See what the problem is here? NI took 3 years to make a “updated” version not a brand new product. On the other hand Pioneer took only 2 years to make a BRAND NEW product.
The use of touch strip can be used as the loop section in the Serato Remote. Also it is easier to have 8 cue pads in the first place rather than having 4 and me scrolling down to put it as 5-8. If that extra 4 cue points would make such a huge deal in weight then ok, but I know it doesn’t.
I feel like what ur saying is “stop crying and buy the X1 mk2 and F1”. If NI did this stupid upgrade to put me into a situation where I need to buy more of their gears, then as a customer I am very disappointed.
“Pioneer and Numark has been making great new products with revolutionary performance pads”
Sorry, but NI came first with pads in the S4 MK1, that has 8 buttons to control either cues or remix decks, then, these companies copied what actually is a revolutionary concept, as did vestax too. NI didn’t make it alone either, i bet it was ean’s input that helped made the S4 that revolutionary.
The S4 is still the best integration between software and hardware in the market, and sports true evolution in it. There’s no need for a totally new product because nobody else has made something better, in that sense.
Pioneer just copies the same old cdj layout over and over, and mashes up pieces of other devices to come out with controllers. They are a bigger company and have the means to make “fresh” products every year if they want, but, is that really necessary, while these have no real improvements, true innovations?
Also, i wouldn’t count the ddj s1 or ddj t1 as meaningful controllers. They were rude recycling of internals they had in excess put together, no real innovation was made there, it was just a way to break the ice in the controller market.
Even with the 2000 nexus, they are copying concepts traktor has been ofering us for years (master-sync anyone?).
They have lots more resources than NI, yet they use them much worse, and end up copying (years later) what true innovators do, in my opinion. To me, they are still to demonstrate they’re ready to leave the past behind and amaze the world with any new concept, not another refried cdj500, even if the display is capable of playing mkv movies. The 2000 are not even able to play compressed lossless files.
NI is the only company that dares to make both sides of the story themselves: hardware and software. serato relies on third parties to make controllers for their software, and viceversa, pioneer requires software companies to cover their lack of.
haha NO REAL IMPROVEMENTS? ur looking at it right here. the S4 mk2. Pioneer copying the S4 “pads” just made no sense at all. I truly loved pioneer’s thinking of making performance pads into short loop rolls, slicer and a sample deck. And does S4 even have so-called pads? You mean the F1? The usage of pads in the djing world and production has been going on since the novation launchpad and the korg nanos. In your case, NI copied APCs and the Korg nanos into making the maschine and the F1. Thats not called copying, thats developing.
The only thing the S4 needed to do was to use the new technology they did in the X1 mk2 and such. Which they didn’t. Basically, the only thing they change was the light and the jogwheels. I have nothing against them developing the jogwheels and the light but if those updates disturbed or made them forget the developments they needed to make after THREE YEARS (8 cue pads literally, XLR outputs, touch strips, better hardware quality and etc) then I have something against them.
come on. i’m not saying NI invented the pads, just that they included them, gave’em proper room and positioning in a dj controller for the first time, since a lot of people was struggling with mappings to have easy cue access on the VCI, for example. they made this to embrace the increasing interest in controllerism. they made their bet, and a very innovative product. pioneer and vestax made the same move LATER.
you already had 8 cue pads on the S4, 3 years ago. it was the first dj controller to increase the VCI100 classic 4 transport buttons to accomodate these 4, together with 8 more for cue/sample control.
take a look at the ddj t1 layout, where are the cues located? which size do they have? of course it seems “revolutionary” for pioneer to move those below the jog wheels, and increase their size as they did on the SX -also, suspiciously similar to twitch’s pads-, but… somebody had done that already 😉
XLR is not that necessary, you can achieve exactly the same through the balanced jack outputs. You just need a different cable. the booth monitor was a concern and has been adressed in the refresh.
Touch strips, well, this is a matter of preference, i sincerely don’t need them.
Better hardware quality, definitely yes, i agree with that point, but its not excessively bad anyway, it’s just it could be better.
hollllyyyy shiittt you don’t really get it do ya? I mean in the literal sense of 8 cue pads like literally 8 square pads on the controller. It is more convenient for me to press the 6th square pad ON THE CONTROLLER rather than moving my trackpad to let the controller know im looking at the 5~8th cue points.
The way u say things such as pioneer copying NI’s innovative stuff does not make sense. Take a look at the XDJ-R1 and btw you do know that Pioneer made the CDJs right?
If NI showed the world remix decks, creative fxs, and etc. Pioneer took that and took it into another level. Just take a look at the DDJ-SX seriously. Other than the tightness with the software which feature is missing from the DDJ-SX compared to the new S4?
I don’t want to use a different cable, would u buy and get me the cables then? I’ve been using XLRs for a long time why do the customer need to change their way? Isn’t it the other way? Isn’t it the companies job to make this gear diversely(?) friendly to both XLR uses and RCA users?
Just because the S4 may still be the king of controllers does not mean they do loosely in the updates.
Not the touch strip in the usage of effects and track seeking. Maybe using the sense of “touch” to now use as loop rolls u know?
yeah, well i see we’re not going to agree. besides the difference size of the pads themselves, you can set the 4 smaller sample buttons to act as sample buttons, or as cue 5 to 8. but you’re not supposed to be changing the way they behave while performing, you either choose one way or the other for those buttons to operate.
so the point i tried to make, that the s4 had 8 cue buttons (if you want them to be) below the jog wheel, at least 2 years before pioneer did, is still valid.
you don’t need to use the trackpad for anything…
pioneer may some day rock the dj world again, as they did with the cdj500 almost 20 years ago, they have the resources to do so. but currently they’re not taking risks, they are just incorporating other company’s advances in/with their devices. they’re what nokia had been in the phone industry years ago, too many products, way too disperse, while under the hood it’s the same sh*t cloned over and over again. they are what microsoft has been in the computer world, a giant in the past, an industry standard, but nowadays still alive thanks to that past dominance, its focus is lost. yes they keep producing stuff, but they just have a name in build quality, not in innovation. that’s my opinion anyway, i’m not trying to convince you and if you’re happy with pioneer, so be it.
it’s funny you ask me if i know they “invented the cdj”. i learned to dj with a pair of numark rack cd’s that didn’t even have pitch bend buttons, i mean way before the jog wheel was introduced. i can assure you i’m familiar with cdjs, turntables, and controllers as well.
to be honest, would you like 8 performance pads that can perform loop rolls, hot cues, slicer, sampler by just a click of a button or making the 4 sample buttons into hot cues and pay $300 (F1) to get more sample buttons? The point I am making is the comparison between one that already has 8 and one that I need to pay later to get both 8 cue pads and more sample decks. This problem would’ve stopped if NI had put 4 extra plastic pads. just 4. I was talking about the weighing issue because the 4 buttons wouldn’t change a pound towards the mk2’s weight.
Also about Pioneer, i agree some products such as the wego 2 can be a little bit cloned over and over again, however they have put some effort into making innovative products. Products such as the XDJ-R1, Wego, Ergo are products I wanted to buy earlier when I started from the bottom. I was talking about the CDJs because these products were pretty damn revoultionary back then. You sound like Pioneer is not creative nor smart. However, the development of CDJs, XDJ-R1 and etc is still why Pioneer remain king in the DJing world. They are people who use the DJM 400 because it is such a great mixer for both the professionals and beginners. Living because past equipments were successful? Pioneer remains successful till this day by and only by their products.
Also talking about the DDJ-SX, no one thought about making 8 performance pads into 4 different sections. It was easier and more convenient than the S4 where you need to turn the knob to make rolls. Strip search, slip mode all were by Pioneer.
What I’m saying is think about why people are mad at the new S4 but not mad at the NS7 2 or the DDJ-SX? both controllers are a sequel to their past and successful products.
By the way I was comparing the DDJ-SR with the NI-S2.
Cheers.
Just because their past products were successful and futuristic does not mean they can just sit there and add little updates of the same hardware every 3 years. Like I said, if this is just a “this is just for people who couldn’t buy the S4, S5 is coming soon” kinda thing I have nothing to say. But it looks like this is the product they have been working on for years.
Hey NI fanboys, tell me one good reason why I should buy this rather than the DDJ-SR. Tell me one, only ONNEEEE good reason other than the fact maybe the software is better.
i’ll give you five.
– hardware and software integration is much tighter. both made by the same company.
– NHL protocol.
– the audio interface is better.
– loop control is way much better in NI controllers.
– it’s cheaper and lighter.
i could keep on writing reasons but it’s your money, your reasoning and at last, your decision. be happy with whatever you choose 🙂
when the numark NS7 II or the piooner DDJ-SR have a stable mapping for traktor this “UPDATED“ native instruments controller will end up where it belongs… THREE YEARS AGO
suggestion:
touch strip with different mappings (effects- loop – track moving)
8 pads with different mappings (cue points-remix deck-preset effects)
XLR outputs
all rubber buttoms (effects buttoms – load – deck select)
touch sensitive encoders for browser encoder – loop enconders
fix s4 mapping for effect unit on-off when changig from deck A-C B-D
the funny thing about this is that they will have to make ANOTHER version of this controller or loose all the customers that they already have (dont think anybody is gonna buy a new controller that offers only 1 new button)
it hasn’t any new button, it’s just the function assigned that has changed.
jaja youre rigth, im still waiting that someone tell me this is a really bad joke
i don’t think it’s a joke, it’s just a product refreshment, from MK1 to MK2, not a brand new product.
they may have missed some of the requested improvements but the ones they’ve made are actually interesting. maybe not enough to sell MK1 and buy MK2, but still interesting.
maybe not enough ? mate check out the new numark ns7 II or another new controller, the amount of changes they have made to give us a better dj experience tell us they care about there customers and the future of this industry (8 cue points, touch strip, touch sensitive knobs, moving platters) try to sell the exactly same controller with new bright lights after 3 years sounds to me like and apple move.
This might come off kind of crazy but It probably won’t be long before NI releases another controller to compliment a new traktor software release (maybe Traktor DJ PRO or something). My reasoning for this is because NI released the original s4 to go together with the new release of traktor pro right? So judging from their history, when they rebrand their software then we’ll get a new controller and that probably won’t till after traktor update 2.9 or something. And releasing these new controllers probably didn’t cost them much since they’re pretty much the same as their predecessors.
extremely underwhelming…I’m a big Traktor fan but had a close look and a play with at the new NS7MKII and DDJ-SP in the last week and these are already eating the new S4 and S2 for breakfast. If the new product cycle for the S4 is going to be another 3-4 years they are in serious trouble here unless they have something serious up their sleeve.NI is putting too much effort into pretend hardware like the Z1 and resting on their laurels.
I like the booth output but I was really hoping for a physical button assignment for FX 3&4 to be on this controller. Haven’t found the right mapping for my original X1 to control 3&4 yet. Dang.
I snagged a S2 mk1 at an decent discount a few days ago. Haven’t cracked it open yet so I can still return it. Are the mk2 bells and whistles worth an extra $135 for someone without an iPad? This is my first foray into Traktor and my first dedicated controller (that’s not a remapped nanocontrol), not sure if minute handling differences, minor remaps, and support for a device I don’t have are worth the money I was planning on spending on a bag / saving for a potential addon.
The Kontrol S2 (mk1) is a good, solid controller. The best thing you can do is open that box and start playing with your controller (unless you see a controller that appeals to you more). If you feel the need to get colored buttons (presumably for the Remix Decks), go buy a Kontrol F1 and use that next to your controller. The Kontrol S2 mk2 isn’t even available yet and you’re not really going to notice the difference unless you compare them side-by-side. Most of the grousing on this thread is mainly about the lack of innovation put into this controller “update” by a company that had a pretty darn good, forward-thinking, controller in comparison to other companies who have really put in a good effort updating their offerings. Some are actually insulted by the assumption that Native Instruments believes we’re so stupid that we’ll accept anything N.I. produces.
I see inputs for channels A and B. Does this mean that you can hook up a pair of turntables or CDJs and mix away in external mixing mode?
Awesome to see Mad Zach getting a featured video.
I’m affrade NI have left me very disappointed. I’ve been using traktor for near 10 years and feel they are pushing me closer and closer to Serato. The controller is no different to the S4 that I own and is way out of date! There isn’t a controller out there that compares to the Pioneer/Serato
You have a valid point there. Any controller made for Traktor has been one-upped by a controller made for Serato. Not to say this is only a two DJ program race, but indeed, it appears that Native Instruments has not reached out to controller companies to develop top-of-the-line controllers (presumably) because it would cut into their Kontrol S (series of) controller’s bottom line.
The (Designed for Serato DJ and unofficial top-tier controller with all the bells and whistles) Pioneer DDJ-SX is almost a year old and there has yet to be a response from the N.I. camp. While you *CAN* remap this controller to Traktor, it’s not plug-and-play and it’s not a simple process to convert the mapping to Traktor. While mainly one of those “tallest building” or “fastest car” distinctions, there is a fair amount of sway this distinction garners… and we’re seeing that grief sentiment as Native Instruments releases its’ “best effort” as a “meh” improvement.
Here is what should have changed.. this is coming from someone who has owned the s4 since within a month of original release.
1. XLR outs, with booth out in addition
2. Jog wheels w/ capacitive touch
3. 8 cue pads all actively lit
4. Flux button…fine its one button.
5. on/off buttons for all effects should have changed to a more playable button.
6. Larger pitch bend area
7. Slightly larger jogs
8. The last one is more a dream, but waveform lcd screen built directly above the jogs.. somewhat like a cdj, however just a smaller footprint on the device.
IMO, screens, stand alone mixer; and hell, maybe even the ability to take it away from the laptop would have instantly sold me on an upgrade.
I understand the need for a laptop.. for the laptop has a very powerful processor to allow for many of the unique features traktor provides. I think screens would have allowed many to keep their eyes where they should be… on the live audience. also nice to just glance down above a jog wheel and see how soon ur next que point is.
So basically if I remap my two buttons over the tempo fader for flux mode then I have the same controller in the MK1?
Well, your platters won’t be “aircraft grade aluminum” and your cue buttons won’t look as colourful but… yeah, basically. Hope you want to spend $800 on that.
It makes me laugh, because “aircraft grade aluminum” isn’t actually a thing. In aircraft construction, there are tons and tons of different grade aluminums used for different reasons. A commercial plane is lighter than a millitary plane, and the alloy is meant to bend a bit more to allow for more comfortable flights (as opposed to taking fire from other aircraft).
It’s very likely the same kind of aluminum you’d find in a baking pan or serving tray. But that doesn’t sound as cool.
Hahaha
Can’t you just shave off the black rubber on the top of the buttons and have something similar? I know the buttons have different colors inside, the big problem (to me) was the visibility of the colors (because of the black rubber which let a dash (literally a “-“) of light through.
This is a good point. I very much imagine you could if you were skilled enough/knew what you were doing. I’m about as dexterous as an oxen so I’d probably end up just chewing up the button lol.
What I do is I bought this clip light at walmart for like honestly 7 dollars. I clip it to my laptop stand I just use it to cast light on my controller so I can see in dark environments. Works perfectly!
I think you can get some really fine (wet-dry) sandpaper and just remove the top layer. I don’t have an S2 or S4, but I am familiar with these controllers as I’ve been a Sound Engineer for quite a while and I’ve had to make sure the DJs were set up in small clubs.
I expected so much more from Native Instruments, but I have to remind myself that expectation leads to disappointment.
I agree.
To me NI’s seeming ignorance in a market they’re supposed to be one of two leaders for is quite mind boggling.
This is like asking people to spend tons of money a new TV when all you did was change the bevel design and kept everything else identical. I think their game plan at this point is to really push stuff like the Z1, Z2, F1, and Maschine (to a certain audience).
But, and maybe I’m alone in this, the allure of controllers for me was just to have a single unit I could pick up and go with. Also, NI’s gear is just looking more and more overpriced compared to the competition. Adding on all these peripheral units is simply costly. When I could buy a top end Pio or Numark Serato controller or two (non pioneer) CDJs for the cost of a Traktor setup with all the pads and crap something is way off in their pricing.
Totally agree with you, on you assessment of NI’s management style as that is my profession. I had been waiting eagerly for the new releases from NI after watching the releases from Serato with the new Pioneer hardware and even Numark’s ns7 ii.
Feeling a little perplexed, I think it’s time NI stopped their secrecy and take a look at working more with companies that making controllers as their core business. Also their apparent lack knowledge or care of their customers needs and wants is astonishing
hmmmm let’s wait see.
Customers being in the dark is a universal problem for this whole industry. It’s as though everyone able to drop this kind of cash on a new controller isn’t cool enough to be part of the process… and I believe that’s unacceptable. I suppose this “We know better” mentality will die away when the profits aren’t as high. Welcome to the mature market, where mediocre products do not yield massive profits just for showing up. This market requires feedback and a lot more “customer touch” than ever before.
great video btw, mad zach rocks !
some many years for more color ? come on ! first apple then NI,
there are no stupid customers any more so stop triying to sell us air
Mad Zach I give you mad props for that sick set you did for the new S4 and S2!!!
You take controllerism to the next level for sure.
But i just have to ask a quick question thats kind of off topic……….
Dude whats up with the Sheena Easton hair dew???
He’s shaved it since shooting this.
#DJTThairupdates
It was done in a moment of frothy emotion and passionate access to a drug store shaver
I’ve had those moments where I slipped with a trimmer and decided to buzz it. At least the weather is warm enough for you not to need a beanie. 🙂
Aw come on, no personal attacks.
I was hoping for something… I dunno, significant. Ideally, and I know this is a dream; but a stand alone unit with Traktor software integrated into it, removing the need for a laptop or iPad. At the very, very least a standalone mixer in the S4 would have been nice.
Instead, we get the S4 1.1. This upgrade is just way too incremental and offers so little incentive for people to upgrade to. Honestly, at $900 there are so many other controllers or even stand alone units I’d rather get on the market. To me, $900 is not putting some fatter knobs on the S4, adding aluminum platters, a flux button, and bright colours.
I’ve been waiting for months for NI to unveil what they’ve been working on, in hopes I’d be treated to whole new ballgame in the controller market. Now that I know this is all they’ve got, I’m going to start looking into serato controllers or stand alone units.
The Traktor DJ integration has to be software-based, so won’t this work with the S4 mk1 eventually (if it doesn’t already)?
No. The S4/S2mk1 use a not fully class compliant audio chipset. Same reason why the Audio2/4/8 don’t work with iPad but the Audio 6/8 does.
I’d like to know if the hardware control for flux mode allows you to turn it off in Traktor DJ on iOS. I’m sure it comes in handy sometimes, but it’s hard to scratch samples in with the track running away all willy nilly.
…This is a big joke…still laughing…
now that they have physical controllers controlling freeze mode, maybe we’ll see freeze mode in big traktor soon?
NO XLR OUTS, NO SEPARATE BOOTH/MONITOR VOLUME…WTF ARE THEY THINKING?
There is a booth volume control now. It is just not clear to me yet, which outputs are controlled by it.
http://e3fabhckvfadprm2.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/NI_Traktor_Kontrol_S4_MK2_Controller_Backview.png
scamo
Nothing innovative enough to make me want to buy this. I did not like the set up for traktor for the iPad, very limiting. I’m quite disappointed in NI for this release. With pioneers releases and numarks Amazing NS 7 II, I was expecting NI to follow suite as per usual and give traktor users something special. Something ground breaking. All I got was colour coded buttons and a hardware link to software on my iPad I can’t use effectively in the club. Sad day NI. Sad day.
Ill keep using my VCI-400 EGE and F1
indeed , NI dropped the ball. It even got me looking at serato DJ. if I haven’t had so much invested in NI … maybe.
NS7 II looks amazing! If Serato DJ connects to the bridge I’m done with Traktor. Don’t forget it already has Video too.
If NI drops a V7 like controller (standalone motorized deck controller) I’ll stick around. They need to continue modular setups.
Fucking Awesome performance Mr.Mad Zack!
Seemed to me like he had to dumb down his performance so he could do it on the new S4.
> Remove the stickers from the jogpads
> Remove the loop buttons and insert 2 buttons called [loop] and [fx].and add a touch strip so you can modulate those effects.
> 8 cue pads instead of 4.
>implying NI aren’t putting all their money into the X1 and F1
>implying this is /djtt/, not DJ Tech Tools
Basically A big fuck you if you bought the S4 in the last 6 months
Uh, NI dropped the price of the S4 to $599 months ago and said they’d be discontinuing them at the end of August. What do you think that meant?
well whoever did not see it coming, come on they slashed the prices on both controllers .. that should have given u a hint. if someone did no see it then lol.
Going out to buy a numark 4-trak in replacement to my battered S2 ( all faders glitchy ). Then I see this. Do I still get the numark?
That controller looks nice – built in 4 channel mixer…
Dude buy the 4trak. I was holding off buying one till I saw what NI dropped, now Ive seen it I will either get a 4trak (or a ddj sx). poor show NI
The 4Trak is great. Build a template to control the effects with the assignable controls and ditch the removable top effect rown on its and its alot more portable and neat.
Can you now control the pitch in Traktor DJ using both the s4 & s2 controllers? I would have loved to see a dedicated filter knob on the s2, makes the work flow so much nicer.
My question would be: Can I now control the pitch just within the app? just with a traktor dj update ? That be nice.
i mean without using SYNC, just pitch bending each track manually or nudging the bpm for manual beatmatch. not all tracks are grided very goon on the app.
So what about switching mid set from Traktor Pro(Laptop) to Trakor DJ(iPad) if someone wants to step in? I feel like im seeing a split USB chord in one of the pictures. Even if they could figure out how to do this with 2 Traktor Pro’s, it would be pretty useful
And still no XLR Outs!!
Perhaps Native Instruments expects the user to get TRS to XLR converters? They’re about $12 each.
so they had the same hardware from the old s4 and changed to RBG LED and with flux mode and named it the s4 mk2 !!! well i expected a touch strip at least
Some talk on the hardware (faders encoders ect.) being upgraded… IDK if I believe this or not.
I’m with a first-gen S2… beyond the ability to control the iOS app (not why I use the iOS app) there isn’t really any big changes to the S2 mk2. I’ll easily stick with my S2… and keep saving my money for a Maschine mk2.
Maschine (Mikro) Mk2 totally worth it!
get the maschine mk2 full not the mikro. you wont regret it. i’ve had in on my setup for a month now. playing as deck d on my s4. and i no longer need the remix decks. best part i can use traktor fx on it. super awesome.
with the maschine mk2 full you done need to ever touch the laptop. with the micro some functionality you will need to
I very much recommend having knobs for controlling the Maschine, but they aren’t necessary. I got the Mikro because I have a keyboard with button and knobs and sliders (oh my). However, when I started using the controller I discovered what nucleartoaster did, you really don’t need the remix decks nor do you need to look at the laptop. The ability to lay in a groove is magical and if you have big fingers (like me) the (velocity sensitive, full-color LED) trigger pads are “just right.”
Im not buying this cheap toys anymore … My last S4 had to return twice , one time for problems with the RCA output, second time (this time without warranty) for the Pitch fader going crazy on itself. Until I finally sold the freaking thing. I rather stay with regular CDJS and a mixer. maybe a X1mk2 and thats it. : /
these*
thats why i love rane and pioneer so much. They never fkin break.
Also before you can control traktor DJ bla bla .. could they first fix beatgrid detection on traktor DJ, I get different results when I analyze on TP2 vs on the ipad, so I have to grid differently depeding on which im using? Then if i do metadata sync i screw up one or another.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^
thats why you beatgrid every track, thats what everyone does, and they are all happy with it
Yeah, but you get different results on both softwares. For example a track that has been grided on the laptop tightly is analized on ipad and on the ipad the grid is off, you adjust it , then sync to your laptop and now the grid is off on the laptop and vice versa.
Did NI boost the headphone output? Just like Gil G asked, is it compatible with USB 3, particularly intel’s USB 3 chipset?
ooohh it has one extra button, they can keep this.
still no XLR???????? wtf its been 2/3 years?
Oh come on, they added a single button and colourful lights! Surely that’s worth $800, right? Who needs XLR outs when your cue pads glow?
I love the horizontal wave forms on the IOS app now if traktor could get that I’d shit myself. I’t also be nice if they updated the traktor z2 to work with Ios as well!!
Still no dedicated Filter Knobs on the S2 :/
Are you supposed to be able to have an iPad AND a computer connected at the same time? With only one USB out?
he clearly turns around. the S2 is connected to the ipad and the S4 to the laptop.
I am starting to wonder if this means they might get pioneer to release a ddj tx. Either way I hope they release a z4 soon.
I’m really happy to see some optimism here. I know Native Instruments makes good gear and I’d love to see 4 channel versions of their recent 2 channel, modular units.
did they improve the sound quality?
This is really disappointing NI. After 2 years this is all u did. Serato DJ has making great controllers & updates… I might just wait for the next NS6 or Pioneer controller
Pioneer has been dropping new controllers and mixers left and right lately. Which one were you referring to?
no XLR? Can someone explain to me how the Booth switch works on the back in the “Main Outs” section?
The S4 will be also- time code capable? I think so because of rca phono input
I have to say It looks nice but really nothing stands out to me. Ever since the IOS release it seems that Native have stopped producing for the pro market and are more content with mediocrity. As far as updates go the last few have seemed pretty lazy.
Seems like a solid update, but not so much better that I feel compelled to upgrade, which is probably best for my wallet. 🙂
im sorry but am i the only one whose not satisfied with this?
Looks exactly like the S4 just the colors are more bright and there is a freeze mode. and apparently the jog wheels changed.
Why can’t take make it up to 8 cue pads at least? If i buy an F1 i justt want to use it as a sample pack not in the usage of hot cues.
I’m sticking with my DDJ-SX for now.
Definitely on the 8 cue pads. That’s the number 1 reason I never bought the old one and this just is a more colorful version of that without the remix decks area.
exactly. im literally angry now the fact that I had to wait this for 8 months. Ever since the first day of 2013 i was waiting for NI to hit me with some big news of updates. Unfortunately (actually fortunately now i think about it) I gave up on the wait and bought the DDJ-SX.
I’m sorry Traktor but I was expecting big news from you guys but I guess Serato and Pioneer won this round.
And again, why no touch strip, I was expecting them to like use the touch trip as like a mini bar of loops like the one in Serato Remote. Again, I actually sometimes need 6 hot cues, THEREFORE I NEED AT LEAST 8 CUE PADS. It’s not like the touch stips going to weigh the S4 as the NS7s. SRSLY NI what the hell were you guys thinking when you announced this?
I’m also curious why they’re attempting to force people to roll back to 4 cue points. Do most users only need 4? Is it to push people at the sample decks? It doesn’t make any sense to me.
you know people always compare Serato and Traktor like Windows and Apple.
ironically(?) both of the apples failed haha
I use all 8. My style of DJing utilizes up to 12 per track so 4 really is a deal breaker for me.
I’m not really sold on the touch strips… How precise are they really? at least for ‘needle’ drop I know they are far from exact and since I base my playing around a lot of precise start points the ambiguity of touch strips doesn’t really do it for me…
I feel like when NI does this, they just want Serato to fu*k them in the ass. If NI is a rabbit, Serato is a turtle. Serato is catching up…FAST. With their new DVS system, they are later going to announce Timecode, maybe later announce the bridge with Serato DJ and have something like the Remix decks. Maybe they are going to have some free FX packs. NI just became lazy with this. NI wake up, making hardware and software for house djs is ur home ground and Serato who already has beaten(?) you in vinyls are now coming to dominate the house world.
I feel like NI just got lazy and complainant. The S2/S4 was a great success for them, but even as someone who has never really liked NI’s business practices, I’m shocked at how absolute little they’ve changed in these new controllers.
It’s like adding a new steering wheel to a car and calling it next years model.
I actually like the price though. 800$?
Well they didn’t have much R&D cost so thats about right. Using the same faceplate and everything. That flux mode button on the S2 really pissed me off. Couldn’t drill one more damn hole NI? No we are just going to take the tempo reset button away, add a sticker and change the mapping.
Exactly! This epitomises just how unbelievably lazy and complacent NI have been with this so called “updated model”. Some coloured lights, couple of grey knobs, remapped a couple of buttons and voilà, they can now charge almost full price again for what is essentially the same as the 3 year old model.
I may have spoken slightly too soon. Apparently there are some hardware upgrades under the hood that have not really been publicized as much as they should have. Hopefully its noticeable. If the whole controller feels much better to play on (very doubtful) then I think a lot of the guys on here may change their minds about this update, me being one of them.
Fair enough. I was already aware of the changes under the hood, but personally they’re of no interest to me. I was hoping NI was going to put a bit of effort in and release a Traktor controller that could rival brands like Pioneer and Vestax who have released some awesome Serato controllers recently in terms of both build quality and features. The fact this is just a slightly tweaked version 1 model is still massively disappointing and unfortunately seems to suggest NI have no intention of releasing anything interesting for Traktor any time soon. If NI want to release slightly tweaked 3 year old controllers that’s their prerogative, but what’s really frustrating is that they seem apparently unwilling to work with or license other 3rd parties to release NHL integrated Traktor controllers as an alternative for us the users. They seem happy enough releasing crap rehashes of old products, safe in the knowledge that it’s the only choice we have if we want natively integrated hardware!
No I’m totally behind you on this one. They didn’t add a single wow factor to the whole update and it is starting to lag behind a lot of the major competitors. If Pioneer made a native Traktor controller I would be there in a second. I’ve been battling faulty loop and move encoders for the last year of owning my S2 so if NI gave this thing bulletproof internals (again doubt it) I would consider upgrading. If they aren’t a slice of heaven then there is no reason for myself or any other S2/S4 owner to upgrade.
Now as a serato user the only thing I need is serato to make their software better (in the aspects of house djing). Seriously, the only and THE ONLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYY reason i like traktor is how their software is so good towards remixing live or i guess in this case house mixing.
How can the people who thought of remix decks, various effects make this kinda update? i still don’t get it.
Haven’t used it yet but completely feeling the same. Got the original S4 the day it came out as, although I knew it was not top-end stuff, it felt like it was somekind of vision into the future. This update is a load of bull, NI drops from pushing the limits and creating the ‘Apple feeling’ to completely selling us down the fucking rainbow colored drain. I guess there must be a strategy not to develop this into a fully pro controller and rather the Z range but either way completely uninspired and the links to iPad like it is a main feature that we all want is tacky to say the least. I would be happy if this controller was retracted and that they wait to bring out something next level and give us GOOD reason to upgrade. What a let down.
Negative Nancy..:(
I too would have expected more and am not dying to upgrade. Hoping a Z4 is coming.
scamo
the s4 has always had the option to switch between 4 and 8 hot cue points total. even though it may say “remix slots” on the controller, those 4 buttons can just as easily be used for hot cues 5-8 by switching them in the preferences
What about the fader!? No xlr outs? :/
Good news but now I will have to wonder if I have to sell fast the first one to buy the new one 🙂
Did they go to USB3 ?
Any news regarding the performances of the integrated sound card (which is not so great in the mk1)?
still really wanted them to have the waveform integrated into the console + the podmeter isn’t exactly amazing.
any chance they beefed up the xfader?
NI has confirmed that the faders are different, but they haven’t told us exactly how yet. We’ll share as soon as we know.
Maybe some tech specs will brighten everyone’s view on these things up. If it has all new hardware (faders, encoders ect.) then it might be worth the upgrade.
Tons of props to Mad Zach for the video first of all.
But come on, for the love of frogs… kill the jog wheels already and bring on the touch strips! I’m pretty sure the jog wheels are just something daughters of influent bosses have talked their daddys into lobbying for…. so they can keep going to DJ booths in clubs and take photos while borrowing the DJ’s headphones and pretending to scratch. #YOLO #lookimdjing
Jog wheels are much more precise than any touch strip I’ve encountered.
Can’t argue with that, but then again, only relevant if you scratch.
No actually jogwheels are very important because it still lets you apply certain personal tricks that you couldnt do without it and there are some tracks that you cant beatgrid properly, so having the pitch and jogs makes that possible.
In all fairness I did say “bring on the touch strips”.
That’s not my experience. Needle drop on a touch strip gains faster access to any part of a song. Two-point contact on a touch strip allows for things you cannot do on a jog wheel and (when you alternate which finger is up), scratching can be done faster and more precise than with a jog wheel. Pinch/bloat of loops can be done in real-time (well at least on Serato DJ) and dual-point moving poles for loops can be done as well (try that on a Jog Wheel). If you’re having problems with resolution, that is an adjustable parameter of the touch strip inside the programs.
I wouldnt buy a controller with only touch strips and I think many people would agreed. I already feel the jogs is a step down from my turntables but at least it works. If you dont use jogs (which sounds fu*ked up), map them to do something else…
As a substitute for turn tables, of course, any jog wheel is a step down. But, especially in EDM… who uses jog wheels for anything else than nudging the beat? Most DJs I know never touch them because they already have their music grid locked and synced. For anyone who doesn’t scratch (which is a lot of people) the jog wheels are just dead space.
I use mine pretty often and I don’t scratch. All my tracks have 8 hot cues a piece but sometimes I want to drop a track from somewhere different and they make quick work of navigating in the track.
I thought they were useless until I bought a Z1, X1 and F1 and tried to mix with just those. I reached for the jogs several times in the first few minutes. Very annoying to not have them.
Beat jump is so much better than using jog wheels for finding the right spot..?
Having a strip on the side like NS6 would be fine, but I would still want jog wheels there…
I say try using touchstrips. I started with Vinyl and they feel better to me than any “Authentic CD Jog Wheel” for scratching. It almost feels like you’re scratching a record.
You answered you’re own question. The entire general public sees DJing as jog wheels. You need them even if they will never use them. The goal is to sell a lot of controllers, not to make people happy.
With as much unhappiness displayed about the new update, do you think N.I. will be selling a lot of controllers? They had an opportunity to do something astounding, instead they showed their human side and flopped.
Can’t stand touch strips. I love the analog feel of the Jogwheels.
Get rid of the jog wheels? No thanks, I rather get rid of the button pushers like you that continue to ruined djing. I get it, you can’t scratch and chances are you’ve never took the time or had the patience to learn how to use the jog wheel and you think it’s pointless, but in reality is not, because by taking the jog wheel your taking the identity or the function of the dj to be in control of the music, the crowd, and relevance of what a DJ is. I know when I got into djing, I got into it because I like scratching and truthfully, you take the jog wheel then you’re taking scratching and you’re making djing irrelevant, boring and pointless… just like watching perform an EDM DJ and Technically, what’s the point of having you if a computer can do your job? No thanks, I rather keep the jog wheels then button pushers like you that call yourself a “DJ”.
If you use any buttons anywhere, you’re a button pusher? I find fault with your belief that a Jog Wheel is the identity of a DJ. I think more people will agree it doesn’t matter how you do something, rather it’s what you do with that something that matters. If we were able to virtually push, pull and otherwise manipulate wave forms in the air (in virtual space) I would, but since we’re not able to (yet), anything that helps you do your job is a good thing. Touch strips allow more compact control in a physical area, this is exactly the same argument for CDs from Turntables. If you’re going to be all unhappy that technology is leaving you behind, be unhappy, just don’t hold the rest of us back.
freeze mode = they copied slicer?
That happened a while ago.
what will happen to the original S4 I still use well there still be support
🙁 i have a bad feeling about ipad support for s4 mk1 users
About time. Only thing mildly impressive to me is the the control of Traktor DJ.
And Zach, care to comment on how everything has an “improved feel and response”? I trust you as a huge contributor on this site and all the work you’ve done but sounds like marketing BS to me.
If I’ve to say something about Vinyl MkII and MKI I will say : “improved feel and response” . . . and I’m not working at native. . .
I wil say that as a user. . .
And beig an Engeneer help me find why. . . The tone is made of a double freq wave. . . More acurate => improved feel and response. . .
Not marketing. . . Simpli improved. . .
And on a controller is simpli a question of augment the resolution of the knob and the protocol 🙂
I give Zach my cookie 🙂
Im really not following you on this one. Zach said the jogwheels, buttons and faders felt better. Are you talking about Vinyl and where did tone come from? And how are you a user? The thing isn’t even out yet.
looks like the buttons are like the ones on kontrol x1 vs. more clicky buttons on S4 MK1. owning both i’d say its down to personal preference.