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Pioneer DJ Divison Is Up For Sale

Today Reuters reported, and Pioneer confirmed they are “considering” selling their highly successful DJ division. People familiar with the transaction indicated such a deal could be worth 570 million US dollars. Pioneer is certainly at the top of their game with some of the most popular DJ gear in the market bearing their stamp this year. Perhaps it’s a good time to go out on top – but what does that mean for the DJ industry?



While consolidation is rarely good for diversity in a marketplace, we can’t help but wonder what would happen if the software creativity of Native Instruments were to link up with the hardware presence of Pioneer. It would take many years for either camp to advance in their respective expertise and a combination of these resources could immediately lead to great possibilities for the customer, or just limited competition.

Numark’s parent company, InMusic, has been on a buying spree lately, picking up smaller brands left and right (Akai, M-Audio) but with their product line firmly intrenched in similar territory as Pioneer, this feels like an unlikely alliance.



The size of the transaction, speculated at 570 million, is quite large by DJ industry standards and probably out of reach for companies like Numark or Native Instruments. Instead, a boiler-plate private equity or hedge fund deal is a realistic outcome.

Similar transactions included Garage Center, sold to Bain Capitol for 1.6 billion and Allen and Heath, which sold to Electra Partners for 43 million earlier this year. A bank-backed sale would likely leave most of the working parts of Pioneer DJ intact and simply shift ownership to a new group of suits. I have long felt that this industry could do with less bankers and more passionate entrepreneurs – but given the current cycle of the market, that looks increasingly unlikely.

One group you might consider, is Silverman’s SFX Entertainment adventure. Presumably they have access to the capital to fund such a deal, although this would almost double their market cap in a single transaction as SFX is currently worth just 610 million, with their stock declining over the past year.

As the digital DJ domain nears almost 15 years young, it continues a march towards lower prices and a broader consumer reach. In that vein, it might not be that far-fetched to see a major consumer electronics brand swoop in to democratize the line even further. Even though the new DDJ-WeGO3 at a very accessible $349 with an iPad connection we still have not seen a “Flip Cam moment” that the digital photography world saw 10 years ago.

What happens when $99 and an iPhone can give young people around the world an amazing music experience? Possibly a new surge in our DJ technology space, which we’ve seen to be in a slight decline recently.

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  • migueladobe

    Who is the dream buyer of Pioneer for me? A group of 3-10 dj’s who have made great fortunes using their products. Imagine if Tiesto, Aoki, Guetta, Skrillex, Diplo, Avicii, maybe some promoters Pasquale Rotella and a couple others in the industry leveraged their money and made this happen. Most likely not a great investment, but an interesting dream.

  • CDJ’s are dying…who plays CD’s anymore? The future of Dj’ing is a controller (preferably one with stand alone capabilities) and USB flash drives.

    Pioneer has a few “okay” controllers…but has been hesitant to equip them with features that would cannibalize their pro line of products…if a new owner buys the Pioneer DJ division and blur the line between Controllers and Pro Gear…it’s game over.

    • Sneaky Snake


  • Is

    Pioneer not a software company, so outsourcing software developers is expensive, and risky business, but NI on the other hand specializes in software development, and outsourcing hardware development is much easier.

    • DJ AL B BAD

      Well, if anyone remembers, NI did just that with Stanton and it was a NightMare!! It took a long time for me to get that bad taste out of my mouth and ever put any trust into NI again. That is why NI now does both in-house. #NoMoreFinalCrash

    • deejdave

      Wait I thought Pioneer developed both hardware & software. I also though N.I. develops BOTH as well and is keen on NOT outsourcing the hardware development.

  • Is

    The beginning of the end.

  • synapticflow

    Yay! This can only be good news. Maybe Pioneer will just die and leave the world a better place for all the those snobby “real DJs.” Har har huhhhhhh

  • allstar720

    I’d like to see all the CDJ units dropped altogether. The stigma attached to controller/laptop djs is super annoying because, as far as I’m concerned, if you use CDJs, controllers, or even Technics with a DVS system, you are STILL a digital dj. A pro controller built in the last few years paired with a mature dj program on a dedicated laptop will run circles around any CDJ or DVS set up. The only thing a CDJ or DVS system represents to me is bougie jog wheels. I’d love to have jogs like that but not at the expense of all the other benefits in a pro controller/laptop set up.

    • deejdave

      While I agree with SOME of what you are saying I will absolutely say my PioneerCDJ-2000NXS/DJM-900SRT/DDJ-SP1 setup makes my SX, SZ or NS7II seem like childs play. I am not talking about coll little FX either. I am talking straight firepower. I can use Serato, Traktor or Rekordbox and EVERY feature of them at that (adding my F1 for Traktor) while my controllers are native to Serato but two can be mapped to Traktor. I mean it all comes down to preference but as an owner of both I would absolutely like to see the controller/CDJ line merged as my costs would be cut substantially. Where things stand right now though I would absolutely have to say the power still rests in the modular setups. They have the flexibility, flat out ability, and the showmanship. Controllers ATM have the MObility……………….. just my opinion at least. Again I have both and use both so trust this is not biased.

      • allstar720

        Great counterpoint. As a vdj user, I’m spoiled by the amount of remapping I can do so it comes down to usinging a pro controller and (for me) turning off all the software hand holding, like beat grid and stuff. I even go so far as remapping the sync buttons to a vinyl brake effect. Still, I’m drawn to turntables only because of the tactile aspect. I’d give anything for jogs like that but then I’d have to use my laptop more for functions, like cues, that used to be mapped to a controller because I think dicers look mad corny, and I’d have to carry 3 flight cases around instead of 1, that’s when I give up on the turntable fantasy. I also like to practice on what I play on so I don’t want turntables at home spoiling me. An NS7 would be dope tho.

  • Jay

    What club do all of you fan boys spin at besides your bedroom? Can someone please post a link to your innovative in the moment club night when you crushed the dance floor in a major club? I’ve been an engineer in major clubs in Vegas and have yet to see anyone roll up with a controller lolol. I guarantee you I have seen djs that will run on you with two mk2s and an old rane57sl. You don’t need bells and whistles to keep the party going, try programing your music, and if you think your computer wont take a dump on you??? It will! And for all of u house djs, bring 4 sd cards, put them in the cdj, play your set, and finish your set. Use your “innovation” in the studio and play out.


      Maybe your clubs should start getting some decent dj’s in…Can i recommend starting with Chris Liebing.

  • Nate Nelson

    Everyone saying that Pioneer sees the coming apocalypse because of controllers is pretty ignorant. The CDJ2000 will not disappear from the DJ booth within the next 10 years. There is practically nothing that you can’t do with a MacBook and a CDJ that you can do with other controllers (other than Remix Decks and things that no-one really uses).

    Even so, more and more controllers are coming into the booth but those controllers still end up being plugged into and used with a Pioneer mixer.

    If we’re talking business here, I think that the reason why Pioneer is that they’re pretty over-saturated as it is – every booth has a CDJ and DJM in it. i think that they can see over the horizon that they’re not going to be able to continue growing the business at the same pace, hence why they’re diving down into new avenues of revenue to keep the business ticking over (i.e. their controllers, their headphones, the turntables).

  • xkx

    Someone tell Elon Musk about this… I’m sure his futuristic alien mind would produce some crazy music making gadgets

  • chris doesn’t sucks

    with an bad-up groing idea for making obscure money, you can buy this shit with onlya few words

    • schlubberdurst

      i find myself on planet Ogo
      (12 monkey theory)
      thereare some nice sings out there

  • CUSP

    This has to be a publicity stunt.

  • Zman

    Pioneer got tired of fixing broken buttons and platters on customer return midi controllers, they said fuck this, lets get out of the dj business and go into making plastic wheelchairs

  • JIM

    i got off the phone with walmart, they might buy it

  • Knights of the round table

    The DJ role isnt that important anymore, and we see a big shift in the scene and culture, soon you dont need to carry any music or headphones at all, with the *Spotify DJ* range, where some clubs use Streaming instead of having a dj hanging around the booth and bar, let them get drunk at home instead, and if he fucks up, flip a swith to another guy or use an playlist from Spotify.

    Pioneers strategy will increase capital to the car and home hifi department, thats where the big money lies.

    570 million, i would have guessed it much higher, but then again, promotion, catering, travels cost alot of money, and i you cater David guetta, Avicii, and other guys, you end up beeing poor.

    So the next big thing is to move production to China, and maximize profit, $ 2000 for a CDJ 2000 NXS mk2 and $ 2500 for DJM 950

    First Panasonic scrapped Technics, after that Denon went dark because of Numark, and now its Pioneers turn.

    Well im keeping my gear anyways!

  • chris

    oh yeah
    btw, pioneer is from “dupont” and they had an Lobbyist – in the past – names J Anslinger and this one was the one, that have told on market, that Hemp is bad

  • Tricksta

    Pioneer is likely selling their DJ division because they don’t see much future growth in sales for DJ hardware. I see this as a sign that the period of rapid hardware evolution for DJs is over. Pioneer might be the #1 DJ hardware manufacturer, but that might not mean much if the market for DJ hardware is shrinking as DJs buy ever more powerful controllers for less.

    Pioneer’s hardware has not evolved much since the DJM 800 and CDJ 1000 dominated club installs. In 2006, Pioneer really did make a better product than other DJ hardware companies. However, very little has changed since 2006. The CDJ 2000 generation evolved Pioneer’s Cd player lineup, but the most significant new features of the CDJ were just to keep up with DJ software. Recordbox is a good file management solution, but it certainly isn’t innovative. The DJM series has only evolved to partner with Traktor and Serato to not require a separate sound card. The incremental changes in hardware haven’t really justified the expense ever since.

    Pioneer was relatively late to the controller game. I suppose Pioneer noticed an impact on sales which compelled them to begin selling controllers. However, a single controller invariably costs less than two CDJs. This market dynamic means that Pioneer, even if they are the premier DJ hardware manufacturer, is probably seeing a steady reduction in overall revenue from selling DJ hardware.

    Pioneer is selling now because their ‘brand’ still has value. I imagine they hope someone will buy the DJ equipment business for the cache of being involved with EDM and clubs. However, I don’t think Pioneer has much economic value left.

    • noxxi

      i think your absolutely correct about this. the pioneer fan boys are picking apart other peices of peoples comments in the discussion and apparently missing the elephant in the room. hardware media players are out, a laptop and a controller is of far more value to most dj’s these days, from a practicality point of view anyway.

      now, they may argue that being the industry “standard” you can just walk up to a set of cdj’s and get on with it, but the problem is, what if you have recordbox and the cdj’s at the club dont? i think there may become a time where venues have computers with traktor, serato and virtual dj installed, the dj just walks up with his usb and gets on with it. its cheaper and more modular for the club, its more practical for the dj. although companies like NI will have to get on board with this and develop a system to put it in place.

  • x

    when serato adds 1 function, pioneer has to come out with the same controller to add that 1 function and you have to pay for the another new model, fuck that lol

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  • Jason Black

    typo in the head: Pioneer DJ Divison Is Up For Sale


    This might be one of those “just putting some feelers out” moment. This is not the first time they’ve announced that, and they’re yet to pull the trigger.

  • Matt

    This looks more like a sneaky way to raise revenue by teasing investors with a possible merger with another major industry leader as only another big player could possibly afford the ticket price. I wouldn’t look too deeply into this. This is a bean counter power play…

  • killmedj

    Fuck it let’s buy it!! With my $50.00 and what ever you guys have, I reckon we got this!!

    • Marco Hooghuis

      In your dreams…
      And even if you manage to do it, what the hell are you going to do with it? Most of us aren’t entreprenours and will only make it go bankrupt in its first quarter.

    • calgarc

      i can pitch in a quarter 😀

      • Ezmyrelda

        I got 5 on it.

  • Patch


    • Jon

      Intelligent input!

      • Patch

        It’s not an intelligent discussion.

        • Jon

          THE biggest DJ hardware manufacturer in the world is potentially changing hands. Thats big news. Intelligent input can be had if only people making comments like “YAAAWN” stayed away and stuck with playing COD instead of getting involved in the grown ups discussion.

          • noxxi

            i would argue that it as actually InMusic, owners of numark, denon, m-audio and akai. its clear that your a pioneer fan boy. so settle down, nobodies yawning at you… yet.

    • Marco Hooghuis

      Nobody is forcing you to read this. I find it interesting and so do a lot of others by the looks of the other comments.

  • I really look forward to purchasing a pair of the Pioneer Turntables. Now. with the idea of the company being sold, I am going to have reservations about this. Most of us can agree that Pioneer makes quality equipment. But in the hands of a company that does not have the passion for music, Pioneer will die out like Technic turntables. I love the CDJs from the 850 and up to the Nexxus 2000 CDJ. I love the feel and ability to use the HID mode with Traktor. I do not trust any other equipment manufacturer for turntables besides them. It will be a shame if it is sold off and a big heartbreak especially in the EDM community.

  • scratchdef

    my old technics turntable will outlast all this pioneer plastic shit

    • sinjintek

      unfortunately that’s likely to be the very reason why the Technics Turntable division folded… and now we have a ton of idiots signing petitions to re-establish a product that the vast majority have absolutely no intention to actually purchase.

      • Knights of the round table

        Nah because as long Techincs ruled with quality and great gear, noone knew the difference, and now they are gone, and now everybody are complaining about their stuff.

        THEN, Pioneer enters the scene, and offers the exact same deal, besides its calle PLX 1000, WOW, what a genious name, it giving me a hardon, i must have it.

        But hey, wait you say, its old stinking lousy vinyl,
        So?, its Pioneer, if its Pioneer, they know, they lead the way, i must have a Pair of PLX 1000s right away, dont matter if i dont have any records, its cool.

        “Pioneer PLX 1000 vinyl of the future”

        Hmm, wasn’t vinyl big in the 70s ?

        • sinjintek

          As far as general entertainment media is concerned I’d say vinyl was fairly “big” throughout the 1940s to the 80s when 4-track cassette became popular. Pioneer’s new turntable should not be regarded against the Technics SL series, aside from a mimicked appearance there is no relation. Pioneer didn’t develop or even build the PLX.. It’s just another one of more than 20 rebrandings of the Hanpin DJ-5500 turntable, and to date the most expensive excluding the Reloop RP-8000 which adds midi controls.

  • x

    numark will get it lol

    • Knights of the round table

      Numark will be the next MC donalds, producing junkfood for the world!
      Owning, Pioneer, Denon, A&H and more!

  • noxxi

    i think they are getting out while they still can, pioneer equipment is dated, with very little innovation. the only reason they are still on top is because they have a monopoly on the industry, a monopoly that is continually threatened by other more versatile companies. recordbox is fine, if the players at the club are compatible. and dont get me started on their “innovative” turntable and its embarrassing marketing video. technology is moving on and pioneer are increasingly being squeezed out of the market. plus their stuff is offensively exensive

    • Chaser720

      Agree and disagree. I think they are getting out when they still can but they are doing so while still on top. Because they are offensively expensive, they will continue to hold the monopoly in the DJ booth (people think expensive=cool). Their next biggest DJ competitor is NI and I think they have thrown the white flag on the DJ market with all the recent production equipment launches.

      • noxxi

        i will agree to that, that image of being cool has definitely carried them pretty far already, and there is no doubting the quality of their equipment. with NI and serato gaining ground on them technologically, and in the hearts and minds of dj’s it makes sense to bail out whilst on top. its incredible foresight on their part, and sensible not to milk it too much. If pioneer released a competitor to traktor, it would probably be a huge mistake for them, as they would be playing catch up. but at the same time, laptops are becoming the norm, selling the company is probably the least risky prospect at this point in time.

      • shlepsen

        1. The second biggest competitor in the DJ market besides Pioneer regarding revenue is definitely Numark/InMusic, not NI.
        2. I am looking forward to the moment all you guys will see the “white flag” NI is probably going to drop soon…

        • Gavin Varitech

          The 2nd biggest competitor in DJ gear, especially amongst hobbyists/bedroom DJs, for sure.

          But NI is primarily a software company, that just so happens to make a few hardware items. More than anything they want to sell Traktor (on the DJ front). Nothing about what they have done or are doing even hints at them throwing in the towel.

        • Chaser720

          Forgot about InMusic. Was thinking more along the lines of what brand. That being said though, if Pioneer gear disappeared from the face of the earth tomorrow who do you think would become the new booth standard? (Thats not rhetorical. ha)

      • Just because NI is releasing a bunch of production equipment doesn’t mean they are throwing in up the white flag for DJing. I’m expecting some big announcements from their DJ department soon as teased by their latest campaign.

        • Gavin Varitech


        • CUSP

          I really hope the up-coming gear is going to include Maschine in Traktor Pro 3. I presume it’ll have video functionality, but I’m not holding my breath.

      • Gavin Varitech

        NI has thrown in the white flag on the DJ market? WTF planet are you on?

        • Chaser720

          The one where NI hasn’t done anything noteworthy in the DJ market since the Z1 which was over a year ago. And all their promo videos look to be aimed at production, or excuse me, “live production”.

          • noxxi

            yeah the reason for that is most probably that they are working on something, seems pretty obvious considering all the promo videos eh? and anyway, “live production” seems to be where its at just now, i mean, what other ways can you mix tracks together? anyway, what has pioneer done in the last year thats particularly noteworthy? apart from copying the 1200, and copying some of traktors features, and copying their own designs again and again and again…. sorry, not really an exact copy i suppose, the new cdj’s have an extra button, a sync button. not exactly a game changer

          • Chaser720

            I’m seeing those videos as Maschine being integrated into Traktor. I wouldn’t call live production DJing. I could be wrong about their whole direction though. But Pioneer continues to release controllers (or did) on a semi regular basis. Even if they are similar its some progression.

            I’d just like to see the same push out of NI in the form of a Z4 or something similar. Something there is obviously market for but remains unreleased.

            And one final note regarding the one extra button, NI did the same thing with the Flux button on the MK2 S2/S4.

          • noxxi

            yeah i suppose they did! they also made the jog wheels a bit shinier! haha! Oh my god i know man, why the actual fuck have they not released a z4 yet?! its clearly to push sales of the z2, and F1, NI’s preferred combination apparently.

            The elephant in the room here is that djing has pretty much gone as far as it can from a technological standpoint, we currently dont have the technology to move on to some other way of doing it, (i’m thinking along the lines of cutting individual instruments out of tracks or something like that, like instead of an high mid and low it was bass, drums, vocals, lead and so on).

            whats left for a company to sell? unless they change the way we play…

            there will always be 2 sides to the fence, people who are along for the ride and the purists. Pioneer i think have pidgeon holed them selves, they cant change the format really, as its that format that is the reason they are on top. their greatest strength is their greatest weakness.

          • CUSP

            I think you’re right about the Elephant in the room, but I think it’s because some company hasn’t made their new software the newly imagined way of doing things. I liked where Virtual DJ was going until I saw Deckadance 2, and then again when I saw the One DJ… Immediately, I had flashbacks of my video production classes and I thought: If this is going to take off, it’s going to have to be more ergonomic (and probably flashier) but not so flashy a DJ gets tired of waving their appendages around, and it has to be easy to master at a level which gives the DJ more control over the music.

            Cutting individual instruments out of tracks is already a possibility (stems), but most of the time that will be a DJ Remix kit, and Recording Companies don’t like to release these very often. I hope that stems will become the new normal by which music is sold, and Spatial Mixers become the new method of presenting music. Being Engulfed in an environment is so much better than being surrounded by it.

          • noxxi

            we really could be on the verge of a truly new way to DJ, spatial mixing could have great potential but sadly i dont think it will be the norm, at least not for a while, who knows what the future holds eh.

            I was also impressed at the one DJ, but sadly, while you can do a lot of cool stuff with it, it didnt look very practical, you could literally just use cuepoints instead and cover 99% of what its all about. except the modular interface which is really nice. and saving edits is also really nice. its not really a new idea, its just bringing togther old ideas into a new package.

            for something truly new, we will have to wait. it may be that the human body is a limiting factor, what we are able to actually control with just 2 hands with out resorting to an insanely complex layout of buttons, and what we are able to mentally compute ahead of time. theres no doubt that a venue is a distracting environment, our brains are already running at probably near full capacity using the equipment and interfaces currently available. this is one reason why i think the one isnt really taking off, it requires the same mental concentration as traktor, but with the added need for forsight and extra planning during a set to get the full use of it, it may be that thats just too taxing for our puny brains! haha!

          • CUSP

            Seriously, most of the bells and whistles most manufacturers have added to their controllers are just that… bells and whistles. I think Native Instruments is acting correctly by avoiding all the hype and concentrating on the core functionality of DJing, mixing music.

            Slip mode IS functional, but Slicer mode not really all that useful. Hot Cue triggers ARE functional, but playing video is still hit-or-miss with the crowd. Scratching with controllers is also hit-or-miss. Pads as an alternate function to cue markers aren’t really that impressive. If you want to add drum machine functionality, add a real drum machine, you’ll get so much more out of that set up.

            The X1 Mk2, paired with the Z1 (and an iPad) is actually pretty nice, but not something I would buy for myself. So I don’t really think Native Instruments is doing anything wrong by sticking to the gear that a lot of people have chosen as their go-to box.

      • Oddie O’Phyle

        you may want to look over the history of NI, komplete has been around for over 10 years. it is their flagship, always has been. i seriously doubt they will put up the white flag in the dj department considering when i first tried dvs, it was final scratch. if you do your research, you may find that NI has been at this a little longer than most companies and i seriously doubt that they would waste ALL the r&d money that they have pumped into it over the years.

    • Jon

      Give an example on exactly what equipment is continually threatening Pioneers dominance in the DJ booth. All of the major clubs I’ve been to in my life have had Pioneer equipped booths. Some select DJ’s request Xone mixers on their riders but thats a very select few.

      • Marco Hooghuis

        All controllers currently on the market. They do a lot more for a lot less.

        • Jon

          all controllers on the market are threatening Pioneers dominance are they?? Remind me again just how many controllers have made it as a club install??

          • Marco Hooghuis

            The only two reasons in my eyes why clubs haven’t gone to controllers is because there is no current “standard” and only a few are modular. Your question is irrelevant though, because most sales come from consumers. There are much more dj’s than there are clubs and most of them go the controller route these days over turntables or CDJ’s. That’s their real threat.

          • halfasemitone

            Nailed it.

          • Gavin Varitech

            Consumer’s like to buy something they can use at home that will be the same, or at least similar, to what they will use when they actually play in front of people. Pioneer is still having no problem selling gear. Even when it gets more and more expensive consumers keep buying it, not just clubs.

          • Knights of the round table

            Go for the private parties, alot more work and ALOT more cash!

          • CUSP

            It’s not always a lot more cash, but those private parties are a lot more fun… because interaction is the name of the game. The crowd almost expects you to play with them.

          • Oddie O’Phyle

            *facepalm* if you are going to stock an all-in-one controller in a club, who are you going to book? all traktor djs or all serato djs? are you really going to tell all the vinyl or cd dj’s to stay home? cdj’s are probably the most flexible piece of gear in a booth. people keep calling them “outdated”, but as i see they work for everything except vinyl. besides, i’ve never heard a controller that sounds as warm as an analog mixer.

          • Marco Hooghuis

            You’re replying to the wrong person I think. I never said they were outdated and I never said they should stock an all in one controller. I even admitted there is no standard and that there are very few good modular controllers. That’s why they haven’t taken over the CDJ.

          • Guest

            my bad, was targeted @gavinvaritech:disqus. my browser was a little glitched.

          • CUSP

            HAH! No one trusts installs at a club anymore. Showing up to a club and expecting the DJ gear to work is almost a joke. Most of the places I’ve been to that don’t “Demand Turntables” (because they must retain this image of “Old Schoool”) have wooden covers built over the turntables for the DJs to come in (with their own gear) and place the gear on top of. Also, there’s input rack with RCA or XLR jacks for the DJs to plug into the house mixer.

            Almost everyone (who has a controller), prefers to use their own gear over something which is “suspect at best.” This is the reality of most clubs… even high-end clubs now.

            Credentials: I actually WAS the guy who went to clubs to set their sound levels and enforce the maximum volume limits.

          • Knights of the round table

            What do you count as a controller, and what is a club install according to you.

            Look at pasha where carl cox roam, he has used alot of different tech during the years, mostley Pioneer, but other gear as well, like his own mixer of course, launchpad, NI FX1 and more

            All the bigger names use whatever they feel like, som chuck the cdjs away, even put other gear on them, just as they do with SL 1200s

            Denon had it going in different clubs, not all of them but some.

            I have not seen one dedicated controller however in any clubs ive been working in, and i dont regard the CDJ 2000 as a true controller.

            I have three of my own, but i only use cd or wavfiles on sd or usb!, never ever traktor

        • Gavin Varitech

          Almost no one is bringing all-in-one controller to clubs, some clubs/promoters won’t even book people that use them, and the best all-in-one controller ever made is still subpar when compared to Pioneer club-level CDJs and mixers.

          Even after being around for years now and their affordability all-in-one controllers are for mobile DJs and hobbyists.

          • Marco Hooghuis

            No true scotsman fallacy. Even so, there is a MUCH bigger market for consumer gear than for club gear.

          • Gavin Varitech

            Everyone knows there is a much bigger market for cheap consumer gear than expensive club gear. You can say the same thing about anything really. There is a much bigger market for $15,000 cars than there are $40,000 cars. A much bigger market for $2 burgers and $40 steaks. There is also MUCH more competition for the same dollar.

            But what does that have to do with the idea that all-in-one controllers will soon encroach on Pioneer’s club monopoly? That is what we are talking about (and you should know since you’re the one that started this thread in that direction).

          • Marco Hooghuis

            It has everything to do with Pioneer. If everybody brings their own gear, clubs won’t bother to replace theirs. And there are a lot of consumers that would’ve bought either CDJ’s or turntables in the past that now buy a controller instead. The CDJ market is shrinking and there are no signs of it rebounding. Now if the new owner of Pioneer would have an idea to revamp the CDJ, that would be a different story. They need to justify the price difference between a CDJ and a controller.

          • CUSP

            Not to my experience, and I’ve worked with over 300 clubs and bars last year. Establishments became tired of DJs ruining their equipment by misuse and spilling drinks on them. Sorry, but even big clubs are going this way.

          • Gavin Varitech

            You worked with over 300 clubs and bars last year? You are officially the busiest person in the industry then!

            I can’t compete with that (lie) but I throw parties, deejay, or go out at least 1-2 times every weeks and I have only seen one person EVER bring an all-in-one controller to a club gig. And he was someone that had never played anywhere before and promptly sold his all-in-one the next day and has been playing on the club’s mixer (with X1’s) every since. And he’s been playing A LOT lately.

            You must be working with a different kind of 300 (LOL) bars and clubs than I do.

          • noxxi

            now thats a lie! tell me, do you alwasy go in before the club opens and watch the “deejay” (lol) set up?

          • CUSP

            Before, during and in the daytime, why? I was a Sound Inspector for the City of San Francisco.

          • noxxi

            yeah, thats a job, your not some random punter turning up expecting to get in and watch everyone setup every day. theres a difference.

          • noxxi

            is this cusp?

          • CUSP

            Here’s where you get your ass handed to you, grab a fork and knife:

            I was a Sound Inspector for the Entertainment Commission for the City of San Francisco, and as such, not only did I visit most of the legal clubs and bars with a DJ set up, I also had to be part of enforcing the rules on the illegal ones. *IT WAS MY JOB TO VISIT THESE PLACES AND MAKE SURE THEY WERE UP TO CODE.* Also, I worked with other Inspectors and directors from other cities seeing how they managed their events, how they tested sound, how they worked with their permit holders, and how they abated club-related crimes in their cities… I had quite a few conversations with them and members of the police who busted illegal (mostly after-hours) clubs.

            Most of the places I went that even had turntables, never turned them on or had them covered so the controllers and computers could be placed on top. I think I found a half-dozen clubs that didn’t have a computer and a controller. This means that most of the places with any amplified sound had people bring their own Computer and Controller.

            It must really suck for you to go “all-in” on a claim you think isn’t possibly true and be shown it is indeed true. I find it amazing how full of yourself you are (believing you know everything there is to know). Maybe next time, you should ask questions or at least research things before you call someone a liar, because now you look like the biggest fool to the entire community.

          • noxxi

            its also weird that he said the guy thought controllers were bullshit, yet apparently uses traktor and X1’s

          • synapticflow

            I bring my controller, laptop, and stand to every place I play. I don’t even discuss it before being booked. Don’t ask, don’t tell.

            That said, I get no grief from anyone because most of them know that I have a full length and a bunch of compilation releases out. That seems to shut them up.

            I knew one event organizer who has a “no controller DJs” policy, with the caveat of “Unless you’re a producer. Then you can do anything you want to do.”

            Go figure.

      • I agree. Pioneer is the dominant force in the club industry, which means aspiring DJs buy the same gear. Yes there are more powerful DJ setups, but most people don’t want to do that. The average DJ is perfectly happy with two CDJS and a mixer.

        • Knights of the round table

          They buy expensive, and sell cheap 3-6 months later when they realize their dream is a figment of imagination and they never be the next skrillex or deamou5.

          Buy a computer instead, at least you can learn how to type when you notice you suck at djn

      • noxxi


        • Oddie O’Phyle

          Kinda funny, considering I use both the USB ports and the RJ-45’s on my CDJ’s. There is no point overcrowding a DJ booth with a controller and a laptop, when it’s far easier and faster to drop in an Audio 10 and connect the CDJ’s by USB or just hook your laptop up by ethernet and run record box. The number one tool for use with CDJ’s is a laptop.

          • noxxi

            and if the venue has dated cdj’s? are you trying to tell me that laptops arent threatening the usage of cdj’s because you can use a laptop with cdj’s? yeah if you use record box. most of the dj’s i know dont use it. primarily because they use 800’s or sometimes 1000’s, most dj’s cant afford to drop at least £4000 on a nexus setup, so they learn on laptops and continue to use laptops into their professional career.

            what i find funny is that you think its easier to bring a laptop, hook it up to an audio 10, hook that up to the house mixer, and then hook up an rj45. i think its easier to hook up an s4 and then plug that into the mixer, job done. cheaper, easier and more versatile. in other words, better. compared to that cdj’s are antiquated, expensive and their main functionality is wasted. its basically ancient technology with a nice new looking housing and some add on features that desperately seek to make it comparible to an entire system that costs about half the price of a single cdj, is smaller, easily portable, and far more useful!
            what you are proposing is that you should use your laptop as a glorified usb stick, how is that not “overcrowding a DJ booth”?

          • Oddie O’Phyle

            lol… not that I hook up both at the same time. I had an S4… sold it. Happier with my pair of 900’s. The control that I have in Traktor is far superior than that of my old S4. Longer pitch fader throws (as I do not use the sync function), better platter and the set-up is MODULAR. You speak of a modular set-up, then support all-in-one controllers. I promote my local scene and throw parties, tell me… how do you accommodate your friends that are Serato users with an SL? I cope just fine. Besides, on a DJ change over I get no dead air… I just put in a CD and walk away.

          • noxxi

            on a change over i usually just match my source and let them mix me in when their ready. usually on a spare input on the mixer. I get the longer pitch throws and the better platter, but that still doesnt justify the price in my opinion. I do use a modular setup, but i dont think i mentioned it. i used the s4 as an example, because its the closest thing to a traktor industry standard that we have right now. whether or not i contradicted myself, is brushing over the huge price difference, the flexibilty difference too. I wouldnt accomodate SL, or sratch pro users, if they want to use that then thats their deal, i would only give them space for it. because, what if they wanted to use vinyls? I’m saying, the only reason pioneer are an industry standard right now, is because thats whats usually in the booth, DJ’s have to get used to using them despite their limitations and cost just because thats what they will come up against. really, you should be bringing in your own equipment, and plugging into a mixer. you cant always trust the condition of house gear, thats already an established fact.

          • Oddie O’Phyle

            there is the difference between us… when I started to DJ, it was social. a few friends hanging out, playing records and enjoying music. we, as a community will accommodate each other (we call it the local scene). we look after each other, where as it seems like you are more intent on accommodating yourself. as for the house gear always being flaky, some of us do research on the venue we are about to play in. it doesn’t take much to walk into a bar or club the week before you play to have a look. you complain about the price of pioneer, but some of remember the cost of vinyl and ALL the consumables required.

          • noxxi

            yeah i’ll give you that, it was the primary reason i ditched vinyls, the is or should be a lot lower now, the market has changed. I’ll only accomodate friends to be honest, or people im mixing with that night, its gotten to be a cut throat industry, i play for my self and take my own gear, that way i have total control over my set, i’m happy to work alongside others but i wont play their equipment. I dont see anything wrong with that, at the end of the day, its my career, its my responsibilty to keep it under control. I stand by my comment, to me it makes sense.

          • Knights of the round table

            Dont forget the CRATEDIGGING among friends and djs as well, the most social gathering before each major gig, that is a thing of the past, now you sit by your computer, dowloading the hottest trax from promolabels, that they need to be played, no matter if its good or bad, just like radio.

          • noxxi

            as i said in another comment, i’m not doubting the quality of their gear, their mixers are excellent and still very useful. but the media players are simply well built, outdated technology. you could make the units out of gold and they would still be out dated. its time to move on from the standard club format. everyone should, really

          • teknik1200

            but A&H for mixers? once you’ve done an comparison between the two you’ll never say pio mixers sound good again.

          • noxxi

            i have never used a AH mixer, their too dear and i’m not a fan of the layout either. so i cant really comment on that, i have heard good things about them though.

          • Oddie O’Phyle

            a ZED10-FX is the hub of my home studio. I’m curious to see if and how much the build quality has changed since the Electra buy-out.

        • James ‘Pioneer’ Burkill
          • noxxi

            i wonder what it means from a product evolution point of view, i dont want to just be a pioneer hater, but i think their products are boring and overhyped. i wonder what will change in the coming years, who knows!

      • Knights of the round table

        “Give an example on exactly what equipment is continually threatening Pioneers dominance in the DJ booth.”

        Pioneer themselves of course, they are their own threat!

        Everybody else are making cheap controllers both stand alone and computer compatible.

        And with the “no skill necessary” you dont need Pioneer anymore

        Just buy a $50 controller, download the software and rape internet for music, then get on all the clubs in your area and underbid every dude
        and you’ll get in, as you have almost no expenditure what so ever.

        And the Venueowner dont care anyway, cause djs are a bunch of whiny bitches wanting the best gear for minimal use, Play, cue pitch, and on accation a coulpe of loops!

        • synapticflow

          Wow man. Such venom. Skill is necessary, maybe it’s just not demanded.

          • Sneaky Snake

            This is the most true statement i’ve seen in my life. $50 DJ’s have killed the market where I live. Its tragic.

          • Knights of the round table

            Not Venom, its REALISM, the things ive experienced during say last couple of years.

            Venueowners that frown when i show them my cdcase, man you still lug around that heavy shit, my other djs just bring some cards or stcks and a pair of headphones.

            Another guy, just spin on SPOTIFY, well that the future for you
            and this is at a major venue in my local town.

            Let me put it like this, id rather die, then ending up like that

            We are at the brink of total annihilation of the dj culture as we older guys knew it, nothing is sacred, nothing is pure, just get the guy who are cheapest and who got most “friends” on facebook or soundcloud.

            When i started out in this business 25years ago, a decent / good dj could fetch a great wage for a gig at a disco, around 1200$ for the vinylguys and 800$ for a cd dj, that was it, it was the bomb, the shit, the badazzle, you had made it.

            Today, be glad if they give you 50-100$ in the best case cenario, and you have to work longer hours for less money.

            There are however money to be made in the private sector, which im located, clubgigs dont attract me anymore, has nothing to do with age, i have 6 pair of 15″ and dual 18″ subs at home, setup in my livingroom, playing tekno, house, rock, trance you name it.

            Age is a number on your forehead t’il the day you die, if you wanna go with the flow so be it, i’m gonna rock the retirementhome if i get that far!

            Its time to put skill and knowlage in the first corner, not showoffs and kids with the coolest gear.

            And many people start to realize this fact.

            Why do you think Pioneer got sold in the first place, they have seen the future!

    • synapticflow

      “offensively expensive”

      I love that.

      • noxxi

        haha! i stand by it! theres just no way that £1500 can be considered reasonable for what is basically a CD player. people have come to accept this price as how much its worth, but it only seems like it is because the lower down models have deliberately less features. if people stopped to think about what £1500 could buy you, like laptops phones, TVs, and such they would realize they are getting the piss taken out of them by pioneer. I would go as far as to say that pioneer set a bad example to the market, basically showing other manufacturers that we were stupid enough to pay through the nose for decks. its raised the price for everyone, even midi controllers, which believe me, are extremely primitive electronic devices.

        • teknik1200

          do you mean because a pair of them costs as much as a decent automobile? not to mention the motorcycle you could get for $4k USD.

          however what’s the inflation rate of the 1k I paid for my first pair of 1200s 20 years ago verses 4k for a pair of the “club standard” decks of today?

          • noxxi

            partly, in comparison to other electronics they are too expensive. i get that they sell a lot less of them and all that so the price is higher, but its too high. there are many more complex electronic goods that sell for far less.

        • x

          thats why you see people on craigslist trading cdjs and a djm mixer for a motorcyle or car haha

        • Knights of the round table

          Just look at the cellphonemarket, Apple Vs Android

          Apple offers design and simplicity at a huge price
          Android offers complexity and some designflaws at a great discount.

          Beeing an Apple Advocate for many years, using android as well, i can say for sure that Apple are overcharging for their products.

          They say they bring the future, BULLCRAP, most if the stuff they bring now, android had in their OS for over 3-5years ago.

          It took apple seven updates to get the controllcenter up and running, to not to have an extra app for the flashlight, com on, is that future?

          The same goes for CDJ 2000 and Nxs

          The most groundbreaking player ever devised, are CDJ 1000 mk3s and Denon DNS 3700

          At that time you could not do much with a say 400$ computer, much nothing with a controller at that time.

          You can do anything with a 500$ laptop and a decent controller, trakto 2 Pro, that kick CDJ 2000 nxs in the ass, and that is were the problem lies, people dont explore the features, they dont know the potential in a setup like NXS, all they see is that its timeconsuming, instead of training and learning.

          • noxxi

            wise words. you can even get a used laptop for £100 that will handle traktor, another £100 on a reasonable controller and you could potentially rock it. Its amazing what we have on offer these days, I get that there has to be high end gear as well, but i dont think pioneer brings much to the table to warrant their extreme pricing.

  • Dean Zulueta

    This is a really interesting move for Pioneer. I wonder what Pioneer’s analysts are thinking about when considering a move like this. I can see why selling at a high point would be good for the company from a financial stand-point and hopefully it creates only better products out of the division, no matter where it goes.

    As digital DJing becomes more accessible and affordable, many more doors will open to innovation and creation on the client and company side.

    • Chaser720

      Really two possible different reasons here. The first being Pioneer built up a DJ division as strong as possible by releasing a ton on new controllers to be able to push the companies price as high as possible. Second being they were not seeing enough sales now/future to justify keeping this portion.

      My guess is they dumped a ton of money into R&D and pushed out every controller project they had going in order to boost the sale price of the division. This would explain the rapid release of a lot of new controllers we have been seeing.

      • Gavin Varitech

        Pioneer is closing or selling all of their secondary lines and focusing on their primary business (car audio and high end home theater receivers). They already stopped making TVs and sold some of their businesses to companies like Sanyo (who was then bought by Panasonic).

  • Aken

    I really don’t understand this move… Why would they sell this division since they released like 67146716 controllers this summer and are like #1 in the dj (not controllerists) equipements?

    • Tim

      More controllers = more items sold = more turnover = higher company value

      • Patch


    • Marco Hooghuis

      While Pioneer DJ makes money, even though their margins are very low, Pioneer in general has a hard time and has decided to sell a few branches. It makes no sense to hold on to branches that have low margins and are in danger of decline. It doesn’t justify the risk. If they wait another five years they may be worth a lot less.

      • Gavin Varitech

        Assuming all that is true what kind of buyer with $570,000,000 is going to spend that kind of money on a dying asset?

        • Marco Hooghuis

          You don’t just buy their current line, you buy a trusted name. So if you have an idea where the industry should go you can make a shortcut. Instead of creating your own brand, you buy an existing one. Happens all the time. I personally would be happy to see this happening. Pioneer isn’t that creative in its current form.

          • Gavin Varitech

            You missed the entire point of the question. If Pioneer thinks the business is in danger of decline, any competent buyer with that kind of money would too.

          • Marco Hooghuis

            Not if they think they can innovate. Retail stores change hands all the time, even in the era of internet. Investors can have ideas on how to make the brand more attractive and for some brands it has worked magically. I don’t think Pioneer would be any different.

          • halfasemitone

            again…. nailed it.